Gun show carry?

[rm9792]

All true. I only have been to the shows around Houston and they always have a cop at the front door asking about weapons.

When they do so, they're acting as private security. Feel free to either decline to answer, or be less than fully truthful.

I aint running with that one, because i will bet a months pay if something goes down they will throw the book at me for disobeying an officer in uniform. They are decked out in their HPD clothes with a badge so to me they are LEO. If they are under security guise then there uniform should reflect that.

[HooG19]

well, it was posted, and I didn't feel like being the test case...I unloaded in the car and carried it in the case, checked it with the LEO at the table and had multiple people offer to buy it. Of course I had to turn them down because it's my only carry weapon at the moment. One guy kept badgering me to sell it, so I told him I'd sell it for $600 to get him to leave me alone.

before anyone goes through the trouble to ask, my carry weapon at the moment is a Glock 19 that I've put about 2000 round through since the first of the year. The only modification I've made is adding Trijicon night sights. Of course, you could get a new Glock 19 with Meprolights at the show for $509.

Now for the embarassing part of the day...

When I got back to the car and reloaded, I forgot to put the mag back in the well after loading my "Barney Fife" in it. Carried into Cabela's, bought a locking case for the car, carried into Sportsman's Warehouse looking for ammo and only noticed that I didn't have the mag in the gun when I got home. Man am I glad I didn't need it!

[shootthesheet]

I will never enter a show that doesn't allow CHL. I take it as an insult from those who want to make their living off of me. "Don't bite the hand that feeds you!"

[HooG19]

I aint running with that one, because i will bet a months pay if something goes down they will throw the book at me for disobeying an officer in uniform. They are decked out in their HPD clothes with a badge so to me they are LEO. If they are under security guise then there uniform should reflect that.

They ARE there as LE, not private security. The show's hire off duty officers through the departments. They pay the department, the department pays the officer as an overtime gig.

[srothstein]

I aint running with that one, because i will bet a months pay if something goes down they will throw the book at me for disobeying an officer in uniform. They are decked out in their HPD clothes with a badge so to me they are LEO. If they are under security guise then there uniform should reflect that.

They ARE there as LE, not private security. The show's hire off duty officers through the departments. They pay the department, the department pays the officer as an overtime gig.

This goes both ways. In some cases, the department pays the officer, and in some cases the people pay the officer directly without going through the department. In either case, the person is a peace officer and has all of the authority of the peace officer. You need to id properly to him just as if it were a traffic stop on the street.

[KBCraig]

I aint running with that one, because i will bet a months pay if something goes down they will throw the book at me for disobeying an officer in uniform. They are decked out in their HPD clothes with a badge so to me they are LEO. If they are under security guise then there uniform should reflect that.

They ARE there as LE, not private security. The show's hire off duty officers through the departments. They pay the department, the department pays the officer as an overtime gig.

Doesn't matter who's paying them. If they're there to enforce a private employer's rules, they're functioning as private security.

Let me make it clear that I'm making a philosophical distinction, not a legal one.

The officers at the door retain their full LEO status to detain, investigate, and arrest. That's fine: that's their job. But a peace officer's job is not, and should not be, to play doorman and bouncer. I have a problem with it when someone with government authority stands at the door of a private establishment to enforce a dress code, and enforcing a show promoter's private rules is no different.

If the gun show employees want to ask everyone to unload and zip-tie all guns, that's their business. But it's not a legal matter at a government-owned facility, and peace officers should not try to enforce such rules.

Kevin

[jimlongley]

IMO, you should pick your fights. The Ft Worth Show has cops in the parking lot and cops inside. Plus Will Rogers is not Fair Park and there are plenty of armed citizens. So I generally unload and carry in.

<Anecdote>
Once when I was attending a show in Mesquite I dropped the clip and carried it and a pair of wire cutters in an ankle rig. They asked, "Are you carrying?" I said, "Yep." Presented my Glock action open, they tied 'er up and I went about my happy day. On the way out I stopped by a waste basket outside, clipped the zip tie and locked and loaded. I felt better all the way around.
</Anecdote>

Did something similar a while back.

I arrived at the gun show, unaware that they would prevent concealed carry. They told me that I could not carry or even have the ammo on me. I unloaded and handed my magazine, plus the two spares, plus the round from the pipe, to my wife and said "OK?" and they said, "Yup just so you're not carrying ammo on you." and they tie-wrapped my gun.

When we left I pulled the gun and cut the tie with my knife, and reloaded.

[BrassMonkey]

Again, forgive me if I am missing something.

I only have to show my CHL to a peace officer if I am packing and he/she demands identification. I cannot find a statute that says I have to inform him verbally.

I also cannot find anywhere where it says I have to answer a peace officers questions truthfully while not participating in an official investigation.

Let's say for example I am incorrect in the above statements (please provide appropriate statutes to the contrary) what statute says he can turn me away? The only thing I can find is that I can be disarmed if he feels I am a threat (you know this text) and he has to give me my gun back when he is done with me.

A cop doesn't get to make the law up as he goes along, or bend those laws to meet the needs of his employer at the time.

I aint running with that one, because i will bet a months pay if something goes down they will throw the book at me for disobeying an officer in uniform. They are decked out in their HPD clothes with a badge so to me they are LEO. If they are under security guise then there uniform should reflect that.

They ARE there as LE, not private security. The show's hire off duty officers through the departments. They pay the department, the department pays the officer as an overtime gig.

Doesn't matter who's paying them. If they're there to enforce a private employer's rules, they're functioning as private security.

Let me make it clear that I'm making a philosophical distinction, not a legal one.

The officers at the door retain their full LEO status to detain, investigate, and arrest. That's fine: that's their job. But a peace officer's job is not, and should not be, to play doorman and bouncer. I have a problem with it when someone with government authority stands at the door of a private establishment to enforce a dress code, and enforcing a show promoter's private rules is no different.

If the gun show employees want to ask everyone to unload and zip-tie all guns, that's their business. But it's not a legal matter at a government-owned facility, and peace officers should not try to enforce such rules.

Kevin

[seamusTX]

I only have to show my CHL to a peace officer if I am packing and he/she demands identification. I cannot find a statute that says I have to inform him verbally.

That is correct.

I also cannot find anywhere where it says I have to answer a peace officers questions truthfully while not participating in an official investigation.

The Code of Criminal Procedure defines the powers and duties of peace officers. It does not refer to on- or off-duty status. Peace officers are peace officers all the time, whether on the clock, in uniform or in their pajamas.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

- Jim

[BrassMonkey]

So which article says if a police officer asks me if I am wearing underwear while walking into the lobby of the PD, I have to answer truthfully?

Please understand I am not being difficult, I am looking for black and white documentation.

I only have to show my CHL to a peace officer if I am packing and he/she demands identification. I cannot find a statute that says I have to inform him verbally.

That is correct.

I also cannot find anywhere where it says I have to answer a peace officers questions truthfully while not participating in an official investigation.

The Code of Criminal Procedure defines the powers and duties of peace officers. It does not refer to on- or off-duty status. Peace officers are peace officers all the time, whether on the clock, in uniform or in their pajamas.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

- Jim

[seamusTX]

So which article says if a police officer asks me if I am wearing underwear while walking into the lobby of the PD, I have to answer truthfully?

If whether or not you're wearing underwear is germane to a criminal investigation, probably PC§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.

I don't think you're required to answer questions truthfully if they are not part of a criminal investigation, except when under oath.

- Jim

[BrassMonkey]

I believe the same to be true.

So which article says if a police officer asks me if I am wearing underwear while walking into the lobby of the PD, I have to answer truthfully?

If whether or not you're wearing underwear is germane to a criminal investigation, probably PC§ 37.08. FALSE REPORT TO PEACE OFFICER OR LAW ENFORCEMENT EMPLOYEE.

I don't think you're required to answer questions truthfully if they are not part of a criminal investigation, except when under oath.

- Jim

[Thane]

Went to the El Paso gun show today. They had a sign out front, "No Holstered/Loaded Guns; All Guns Must Be Locked/Tied." No 30.06 sign, though. I carried my Springfield Champion right in (IWB, with unbuttoned shirt over top).

I got the ol' eyeball from a couple cops at the door, but they said nothing, and neither did I. I'm sure they "made" me, but I think they knew the place wasn't properly posted. Additionally, just about every officer I've met here (with one exception) is pro-RKBA and pro-CHL.

[KBCraig]

I don't think you're required to answer questions truthfully if they are not part of a criminal investigation, except when under oath.

That's why I said in an earlier reply, "Feel free to either decline to answer, or be less than fully truthful."

If you're not being questioned as part of an investigation, it's just conversation. It's no more illegal to lie to a peace officer about gun possession during conversation, than to lie about fishing or golf scores.

[seamusTX]

If you're not being questioned as part of an investigation, it's just conversation. It's no more illegal to lie to a peace officer about gun possession during conversation, than to lie about fishing or golf scores.

I agree with that.

However, some law enforcement officials think that publicly owned facilities can be 30.06 posted. Galveston County facilities are a prime example. I have never been in one that was not posted. Pasadena Convention Center and George R. Brown are posted for gun shows. In those cases, the officers think they are enforcing the law.

If they decide to arrest someone, charges may be dropped, or a judge may dismiss the case because he understands the plain language of 30.06, or someone may be found guilty and have a reversal on appeal, thus making history.

- Jim