Secondarily, the Shockwave is 26.37" long. What is the overall length of an 18" barreled pump gun with a regular pistol grip in place of a shoulder stock? The barrel is 4" longer, the receiver the same length, but the stock/grip about 4" shorter than the Shockwave. From the above conversation, it would seem that such a gun would circumvent Texas law AND the NFA regs, and not be significantly longer than the Shockwave.......or am I missing something? Don't these models already exist?
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
My Mossberg 500 came with traditional stock as well as a pistol grip. Even with the grip the overall length is within the legal requirement. I don't like shooting with the pistol grip. I can't consistently put rounds on target, and my wrist takes an awful beating after just a few shots. Also when held and trying to sight down the barrel, it extends away from by body just as much if not more than with the stock. I don't know if Texas will allow an exemption for the Shockwave, but, it's not something I am going to be buying. JMHO
Take away the Second first, and the First is gone in a second
The problem with the legal system in the USA and in Texas is that it has been turned upside down. It was meant to be "innocent until PROVEN guilty"...now it is "guilty until proven innocent". Why would I say that? Because instead of something being legal until MADE illegal, it is now illegal until made legal.
The Annoyed Man wrote:Secondarily, the Shockwave is 26.37" long. What is the overall length of an 18" barreled pump gun with a regular pistol grip in place of a shoulder stock? The barrel is 4" longer, the receiver the same length, but the stock/grip about 4" shorter than the Shockwave. From the above conversation, it would seem that such a gun would circumvent Texas law AND the NFA regs, and not be significantly longer than the Shockwave.......or am I missing something? Don't these models already exist?
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. - John Adams
One of the things that keeps this from being classed as AOW is the over 26" length. However one of the things that makes a firearm AOW is a smooth bore and concealable. So by that definition if you concealed it in a backpack it might become an AOW and require a tax stamp, I read an ATF opinion that being over 26" does not necessarily mean it can't also be classified as AOW.
Last edited by Medley86 on Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Annoyed Man wrote:Secondarily, the Shockwave is 26.37" long. What is the overall length of an 18" barreled pump gun with a regular pistol grip in place of a shoulder stock? The barrel is 4" longer, the receiver the same length, but the stock/grip about 4" shorter than the Shockwave. From the above conversation, it would seem that such a gun would circumvent Texas law AND the NFA regs, and not be significantly longer than the Shockwave.......or am I missing something? Don't these models already exist?
Thanks for the link. I was sure I remembered correctly. But, 31" is 5" longer than 26"......but would that matter? If the Shockwave is based on a 590, then is the 590's receiver shorter than the 500's receiver? That's got me confused, because although the Shockwave's barrel is 4" shorter than the 500 Tactical, the Shockwave's grip is a lot longer. They ought to be within an inch or so of one another, so I'm wondering why the Shockwave is so much shorter.
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
As an interesting point an attorney pointed me to the fact that while 46.01 does not define a shotgun, Texas Parks and wildlife uses the term "Legal Shotgun" which in part is defined as a
Legal Shotguns: Shotguns not larger than 10-gauge, fired from the shoulder, and incapable of holding more than three shells. Shotguns capable of holding more than three shells must be plugged with a one piece filler which cannot be removed without disassembling the gun, so the gun's total capacity does not exceed three shells.
You can make the argument that Texas Parks and Wildlife has defined the essential elements of a shotgun.
austinmc62 wrote:As an interesting point an attorney pointed me to the fact that while 46.01 does not define a shotgun, Texas Parks and wildlife uses the term "Legal Shotgun" which in part is defined as a
Legal Shotguns: Shotguns not larger than 10-gauge, fired from the shoulder, and incapable of holding more than three shells. Shotguns capable of holding more than three shells must be plugged with a one piece filler which cannot be removed without disassembling the gun, so the gun's total capacity does not exceed three shells.
You can make the argument that Texas Parks and Wildlife has defined the essential elements of a shotgun.
Welcome to the forum. That's not a shotgun definition, but is rather a restriction for hunting purposes only, and has no bearing on whether or not you can have a 8+1 pump action or semiautomatic shotgun for home defense (you can). The analogous case would be those states where you can have any capacity magazine you want for your AR15 for home defense or range/competition use, whereas hunting with an AR15 in those states requires the magazine to be restricted to X number of rounds (typically 5).
“Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.”
austinmc62 wrote:As an interesting point an attorney pointed me to the fact that while 46.01 does not define a shotgun, Texas Parks and wildlife uses the term "Legal Shotgun" which in part is defined as a
Legal Shotguns: Shotguns not larger than 10-gauge, fired from the shoulder, and incapable of holding more than three shells. Shotguns capable of holding more than three shells must be plugged with a one piece filler which cannot be removed without disassembling the gun, so the gun's total capacity does not exceed three shells.
You can make the argument that Texas Parks and Wildlife has defined the essential elements of a shotgun.
Welcome to the forum. That's not a shotgun definition, but is rather a restriction for hunting purposes only, and has no bearing on whether or not you can have a 8+1 pump action or semiautomatic shotgun for home defense (you can). The analogous case would be those states where you can have any capacity magazine you want for your AR15 for home defense or range/competition use, whereas hunting with an AR15 in those states requires the magazine to be restricted to X number of rounds (typically 5).
And that is the point. This is the closest ruling to what a shotgun is by a state agency. And the particular point is shoulder fired, which the schockwave cannot be.
austinmc62 wrote:As an interesting point an attorney pointed me to the fact that while 46.01 does not define a shotgun, Texas Parks and wildlife uses the term "Legal Shotgun" which in part is defined as a
Legal Shotguns: Shotguns not larger than 10-gauge, fired from the shoulder, and incapable of holding more than three shells. Shotguns capable of holding more than three shells must be plugged with a one piece filler which cannot be removed without disassembling the gun, so the gun's total capacity does not exceed three shells.
You can make the argument that Texas Parks and Wildlife has defined the essential elements of a shotgun.
Welcome to the forum. That's not a shotgun definition, but is rather a restriction for hunting purposes only, and has no bearing on whether or not you can have a 8+1 pump action or semiautomatic shotgun for home defense (you can). The analogous case would be those states where you can have any capacity magazine you want for your AR15 for home defense or range/competition use, whereas hunting with an AR15 in those states requires the magazine to be restricted to X number of rounds (typically 5).
And that is the point. This is the closest ruling to what a shotgun is by a state agency. And the particular point is shoulder fired, which the schockwave cannot be.
My guess is that Parks and Wildlife does not want hunters shooting at geese and ducks with a pistol-grip shotgun hence their definition. Next week I am gonna check out my local Academy and some mom and pop shops and see if they are selling the Shockwave. Would love to have one but will not volunteer to be a test case. :)
Please know and follow the rules of firearms safety.
austinmc62 wrote:And that is the point. This is the closest ruling to what a shotgun is by a state agency. And the particular point is shoulder fired, which the schockwave cannot be.
The term they used is "legal shotguns" and by your own argument the Mossberg Shockwave is not one. It may however be an illegal shotgun.
Bummer. I've got a Shockwave in transit from KYGUNCO to my FFL. I'll call him tomorrow and find out if he is willing to complete the transfer. If not, I'll find out how KYGUNCO treats returns.
Given the confusion over this firearm's status here in Texas, if the transfer goes through, the Shockwave will never leave my home.
Out West wrote:Bummer. I've got a Shockwave in transit from KYGUNCO to my FFL. I'll call him tomorrow and find out if he is willing to complete the transfer. If not, I'll find out how KYGUNCO treats returns.
Given the confusion over this firearm's status here in Texas, if the transfer goes through, the Shockwave will never leave my home.
My LGS has an LED marquis that scrolls through a wide variety of ads. On Saturday as I was driving by I caught a glimpse for a split second of what I believe said, "Mossberg Shockwave In Stock Now".
If anyone wants to give them a call, they are Locked and Loaded Arms, 281-549-5769
LTC since 2015
I have contacted my state legislators urging support of Constitutional Carry Legislation HB 1927
