Quality Range Ammo .223/.556 for AR15

[cyphertext]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

We have also found that the Russian steel cased ammo does not use the more costly copper jacketed lead bullets. The bullets appear to be copper plated only and the bullet itself appears to have iron mixed in - if you check you will find that the bullets are magnetic. The use of these rounds will lead to early barrel replacement.

I saw that report from Lucky Gunner... but I don't shoot at the same rate that they do... and have seen other reports that suggest a different theory on the barrel wear, that it is actually the propellant and not the bi-metal jacket that wears the barrel. But in either case, one can shoot that stuff and replace a barrel with the savings over brass and still come out ahead.

[Bitter Clinger]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

We have also found that the Russian steel cased ammo does not use the more costly copper jacketed lead bullets. The bullets appear to be copper plated only and the bullet itself appears to have iron mixed in - if you check you will find that the bullets are magnetic. The use of these rounds will lead to early barrel replacement.

I saw that report from Lucky Gunner... but I don't shoot at the same rate that they do... and have seen other reports that suggest a different theory on the barrel wear, that it is actually the propellant and not the bi-metal jacket that wears the barrel. But in either case, one can shoot that stuff and replace a barrel with the savings over brass and still come out ahead.

Go ahead and strip your rifling out prematurely, not my problem.

[The Annoyed Man]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

I have no experience with the Hornady steel case ammo specifically, but I can tell you that every single AR I've ever seen with a stuck steel case that wouldn't extract, was a 16" carbine, and the ammo was cheap Russian stuff. Carbine length gas system is assumed for most or all of them, since, (A) that would be statistically most likely, and (B) at least to MY eyes, the people I saw shooting carbines that got stuck were did not appear to be all that sophisticated about ARs, and might not have known that they could buy/build a carbine with a mid-length gas system. I'm sure it does happen to owners of ARs in other lengths, but I have personally only seen it happen to carbines.

[C-dub]

In another thread I recently mentioned that I picked up some ammo from Freedom Munitions. I don't know if it was coincidence or the spy bots, but after also recently putting the TA31RCO-M4 ACOG on my carbine Freedom put their General Dynamics XM855 62gr ammo up for sale at 0.35 cents/round with free shipping. I got 1000 rounds of this and, to date, this is my biggest ammo purchase online or otherwise. I have ordered a couple of oddball specialty rounds for a couple rifles, but only 100-200 rounds at a go. I think the XM855 stuff is supposed to be what my ACOG was intended to be used with.

Other than that, I already have a few thousand rounds of mostly lesser expensive Federal, PMC, or Tula 55gr stuff from Walmart that I've accumulated over the past few years with the odd box of 45gr. All brass cased. I shot some steel cased stuff a couple years ago and after a couple minor issues ditched that ammo. I may have just left it at whatever range I was at. I don't remember for sure, but I don't have any more steel cased ammo.

[Odiferous]

Anyone use the Wolf brass .223?

Wolf Gold is frequently the best deal available on new brass ammo, and it's just as good as the rest of the M193 stuff out there.

[cyphertext]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

We have also found that the Russian steel cased ammo does not use the more costly copper jacketed lead bullets. The bullets appear to be copper plated only and the bullet itself appears to have iron mixed in - if you check you will find that the bullets are magnetic. The use of these rounds will lead to early barrel replacement.

I saw that report from Lucky Gunner... but I don't shoot at the same rate that they do... and have seen other reports that suggest a different theory on the barrel wear, that it is actually the propellant and not the bi-metal jacket that wears the barrel. But in either case, one can shoot that stuff and replace a barrel with the savings over brass and still come out ahead.

Go ahead and strip your rifling out prematurely, not my problem.

The barrel on an AR is consumable and easily replaced. When you can shoot steel cased ammo and have money from the savings to replace the barrel and still be ahead... well, I don't see that as a problem.

Maybe this will help...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960

[cyphertext]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

I have no experience with the Hornady steel case ammo specifically, but I can tell you that every single AR I've ever seen with a stuck steel case that wouldn't extract, was a 16" carbine, and the ammo was cheap Russian stuff. Carbine length gas system is assumed for most or all of them, since, (A) that would be statistically most likely, and (B) at least to MY eyes, the people I saw shooting carbines that got stuck were did not appear to be all that sophisticated about ARs, and might not have known that they could buy/build a carbine with a mid-length gas system. I'm sure it does happen to owners of ARs in other lengths, but I have personally only seen it happen to carbines.

Interesting as I have shot a ton of the cheap stuff as well as the Hornady and have never experienced an issue. The video I posted above attributes the stuck cases in carbines to being overgassed and starting to extract before the steel has had a chance to cool.

[DLuke00]

Thank you all for you responses!!! The range where I shoot doesn't allow steel so that's out. I really appreciate y'alls advice and will consider all comments to make my decision. Thanks y'all

[DLuke00]

My plan is to stay completely away from steel! At this point, I'm just looking for the best cost/quality/efficiency ratio! Thank you all for your input to this point and I will welcome more! I'm very familiar with firearms but this is my first AR! Yes, I know, ...what took me so long!!! I dunno but I'm here now and enjoy every trigger pull, hence the need for quality cost effective ammo for the range! Thank y'all!!!

[DLuke00]

Also, I'm looking for quality yet reasonable priced optics for my AR. All suggestions and experiences of yours are appreciated!!

[Bitter Clinger]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

We have also found that the Russian steel cased ammo does not use the more costly copper jacketed lead bullets. The bullets appear to be copper plated only and the bullet itself appears to have iron mixed in - if you check you will find that the bullets are magnetic. The use of these rounds will lead to early barrel replacement.

I saw that report from Lucky Gunner... but I don't shoot at the same rate that they do... and have seen other reports that suggest a different theory on the barrel wear, that it is actually the propellant and not the bi-metal jacket that wears the barrel. But in either case, one can shoot that stuff and replace a barrel with the savings over brass and still come out ahead.

Go ahead and strip your rifling out prematurely, not my problem.

The barrel on an AR is consumable and easily replaced. When you can shoot steel cased ammo and have money from the savings to replace the barrel and still be ahead... well, I don't see that as a problem.

Maybe this will help...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960

I don't need YouTube, I prefer real life experience. But thanks anyway, if it makes you feel better then I'm satisfied.

[cyphertext]

I would amend the above to make sure to only buy brass-cased ammo. I know that plenty of people shoot the steel-cased varnished stuff, but the .223/5.56 case doesn't have enough taper to use that kind of ammo reliably. I've seen WAY too many fired steel cases stuck in AR barrels that wouldn't extract for love or money......some times so badly that running a rod down the barrel and trying to tap the case out won't remove it. Then you need a gunsmith with a chamber reamer. Brass cases OTH have natural lubricity and are very good at extracting cleanly.

Steel cased ammo is fine for AK pattern rifles because the case has a pronounced taper and extracts easily.

I'm going to respectfully disagree... while this was true in the past, steel cased ammo today is no longer covered in lacquer. Also, back when folks would get steel cases stuck in the chamber, most were shooting 20" rifles. With a carbine length gas system, and the higher pressures involved, reliable extraction can be achieved using steel cased ammo. Add in the O-ring enhanced extractor and I doubt you will have any issues.

And remember, not all steel cased ammo is created equally... there is a big difference between Tula and Hornady Steel Match, and a price difference that matches as well.

We have also found that the Russian steel cased ammo does not use the more costly copper jacketed lead bullets. The bullets appear to be copper plated only and the bullet itself appears to have iron mixed in - if you check you will find that the bullets are magnetic. The use of these rounds will lead to early barrel replacement.

I saw that report from Lucky Gunner... but I don't shoot at the same rate that they do... and have seen other reports that suggest a different theory on the barrel wear, that it is actually the propellant and not the bi-metal jacket that wears the barrel. But in either case, one can shoot that stuff and replace a barrel with the savings over brass and still come out ahead.

Go ahead and strip your rifling out prematurely, not my problem.

The barrel on an AR is consumable and easily replaced. When you can shoot steel cased ammo and have money from the savings to replace the barrel and still be ahead... well, I don't see that as a problem.

Maybe this will help...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5ZB3UfG960

I don't need YouTube, I prefer real life experience. But thanks anyway, if it makes you feel better then I'm satisfied.

Whatever...

[cyphertext]

Thank you all for you responses!!! The range where I shoot doesn't allow steel so that's out. I really appreciate y'alls advice and will consider all comments to make my decision. Thanks y'all

Are you shooting indoors? Do they not allow steel projectiles, or steel case? Big difference between the two...

[The Annoyed Man]

Also, I'm looking for quality yet reasonable priced optics for my AR. All suggestions and experiences of yours are appreciated!!

"Optics" covers everything from a Red Dot Sight (RDS) to a long range sniping scope. You'll have to narrow down what you mean by "optics" to get more specific recommendations...... but here's some examples of what I mean......

Just looking at RDS:

• UTG 3.9" ITA Red/Green CQB Dot Sight with Integral QD Mount, roughly $45
• Bushnell Trophy TRS-25, roughly $70
• Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot, roughly $179
• Vortex StrikeFire II, roughly $180
• Vortex Sparc II, roughly $200
• Aimpoint Carbine Optic Red Dot Sight, roughly $393
• Aimpoint PRO Patrol Rifle Optic Red Dot Sight, roughly $437
• Aimpoint Micro H-1 Red Dot Sight, roughly $630
• Aimpoint Micro T-2 Red Dot Sight (2 MOA), roughly $883

ALL of these are small light simple red dot sights. As you can see, there is a HUGE array of prices, and I didn't even list all the different ones you can buy, and just limited myself to a representative sampling across a broad price range. I myself own a Primary Arms Advanced Micro Dot which is mounted on a Keltec Sub-2000 9mm carbine, and an Aimpoint Micro T-2 Red Dot Sight (2 MOA) which is mounted on a 2-stamp suppressed 10.5" .300 Blk SBR.

As in all things, generally speaking, you get what you pay for. Don't expect the quality, performance, and reliability out of a $45 UTG that you would get out of a $200 Vortex, or a $630 Aimpoint H-1.

.....and that's just unmagnified Red Dot Sights. There are also a plethora of fixed power magnified optics with prices well above $1,000 (Trijicon ACOG and Elcan), and fixed power magnified optics (Burris AR series) down around $200-$300. Then there are all the lower power variable power scopes in the 1-4x, 1-5x, 1-6x, and 1-8x range. And lets mention medium power variable power scopes in the 3-9x range. And then there are the long range scopes with much higher magnification ranges.

It really boils down to this: What kind of AR15 are on you the market for, and what do you intend to use it for? If you can be more specific about your AR's configuration and primary uses, then we can give you much more specific recommendations about optics.

[ntexaschl]

Postby The Annoyed Man » Thu Mar 30, 2017 10:42 am

Soccerdad1995 wrote:
howdy wrote:
I use Freedom Munitions .223 re-manufactured rounds. They work great. https://www.freedommunitions.com/ammuni ... reman.html. If you live in the Houston area, they have a store at 290 and Jones Road.


I like Freedom Munitions as well. They also give a 5% veterans discount.

If you don't mind having the ammo shipped, LAX ammo is of a similar quality, usually a bit cheaper, and they don't collect sales tax.

I recently bought a 1000 rounds from BiteTheBullet.com, and paid $261.99/1000 for remanufactured 55 grain FMJ, shipping from Las Vegas, Nevada. The same thing from Freedom Munitions is $290.00/1000, shipping from Lewiston, Idaho. The quality is about the same.....they both use Hornady FMJ bullets, but the total cost freight included is somewhat cheaper from Bite the Bullet. I like Freedom Arms and have bought a ton of ammo from them, but I'm going to give Bite the Bullet a try for a while. Their 9mm ball is pretty cheap too.recently bought a 1000 rounds from BiteTheBullet.com, and paid $261.99/1000 for remanufactured 55 grain FMJ, shipping from Las Vegas,



Thanks for the link to BiteTheBullet.com, TAM. 1k rds headed my way.