Is Brazos County pulling a fast one?

[cclacy]

I’ve been following a case with the Brazos County courthouse which 19 years ago or so posted the entire courthouse building (a 4 story muli-use building with many offices, including county and district clerk offices) with a 30.06 sign. For the last 17-18 years there has been, and still is, a metal detector at the door manned by Brazos county sheriff deputies. One cannot even enter with a small pocket knife.

Here is a link to the Ken Paxton letter from March 30, 2016 saying they are in violation, as well as a ruling letter from Ken Paxton’s office saying the matter is closed because they removed the sign. That letter is from November 10, 2016.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/fi ... thouse.pdf


I went to the courthouse today. The signs are indeed removed. Now there is a generic sign that says basically “No Weapons Allowed, PC 46.03” I called and spoke with the security department. They said they do not allow anyone with an LTC to enter the building while carrying a handgun. I asked why 30.06 was removed. They said the AG office required it, but allows the generic sign. I reiterated that it’s not a legal sign prohibiting concealed carry by an LTC holder. They again stated that a citizen with an LTC may not enter with his or her firearm. I also confirmed that the county clerk is still located in the building (along with other non court offices).

I then entered the building. Five feet from the inside of the front door is the metal detector. I stopped short of that to speak with a deputy. The polite deputy I spoke with in person told me the exact same thing.


So am I missing something? It seems to me they are pulling a fast one. They removed the sign but still deny access to LTCs at the security screening point at the entrance. I called the AG assistant’s office, and Andrea said I should launch a complaint. I’d love opinions. Should I just call the AG complaint hotline. It seems to me this matter has already been ruled on by the AG, and Brazos county is just pulling a sneaky stunt to act like they are in compliance if an AG investigator stops by to view the entrance and check for a sign (which is now gone).

[ScottDLS]

By telling you you can't enter with a concealed handgun, the deputy was violating 411.209 by "providing" you notice orally. The question is what are you going to do about it other than writing another letter and waiting another year?

[Acronym Esq]

I’ve been following a case with the Brazos County courthouse ... there is a generic sign that says basically “No Weapons Allowed, PC 46.03”

It is easy enough to advise law abiding Texas LTC holders to look only for 51%, 30.06, and 30.07 signs. Straightforward rule. Now everyone needs to have counsel with them to advise on 46.02 and 46.03, opine on the meaning of school or amusement park, perform a title search of the property, inspect financial records to determine property use, and consider the risk/reward of misinterpreting the law, taking a ride, or being carried by 6.

This is turning into quite a mess.

Acronym 12/27/2016 5:18 PM

[KLB]

It seems to me they are pulling a fast one.

The City of San Antonio does something similar.The goal of many local governments is not to comply with the law but to game it. Obstinacy and obfuscation enable them to avoid compliance and, so far, the penalty for non-compliance. And yet they self righteously require us to comply with law.

[jweg84]

I definitely want to see what happens with this one as I live in College Station.

[treadlightly]

By telling you you can't enter with a concealed handgun, the deputy was violating 411.209 by "providing" you notice orally. The question is what are you going to do about it other than writing another letter and waiting another year?

As I read the law, not that I agree with the concept, the government commits a crime by providing notice you can't carry under the provisions of 30.06.

If they say you can't carry just because primae noctis or some such, avoiding mention of 30.06, I don't think they violate the signage law.

Is there any law saying a license holder's privileges can't be arbitrarily suspended? LEO's can disarm you in a traffic stop, is there anything that stops them from disarming a law abiding citizen for entrance to a building?

Besides, it's my safety on the line as a member of the public. I'd far rather face whatever imagined risks there might be from a lawfully armed crowd of my fellow citizens than from a disarmed mob.

And pocket knives? I don't go where I think I might need a gun, but a Leatherman anywhere is a potential necessity.

[ELB]

Make a written formal complaint to the AG.

He has been clear in his opinions that local governments may not forbid entry to armed LTC holders, regardless of whether it is a 30.06/30.07 sign, some other kind of sign that implicates licensed carry, oral notice, or whatever -- the only exception being actual court rooms and actual court offices.

Brazos is not following the law. I would hope that the AG would be able to work this not as a "new" complaint, but pick up where he left off and issue a cure letter immediately.

[ELB]

Also I would hope that TSRA, the TFC, and others will highlight this to the Legislature as an example of how local government flout the law, and that the Leg should not be so generous in giving them chances to comply.

If San Antonio is doing stuff like this, someone here who has direct knowledge of it should post it here.

[bblhd672]

Maybe all these government dolts are just jealous of the fact that LTC holders are more law abiding than they are!

[treadlightly]

It's funny, really. Brazos County has no authority to control handguns anywhere in their courthouse, judge's chambers, anywhere - except against those few of us who have gone to the expense and trouble to get the license.

The Legislature has already banned the masses from handgun carry just about anywhere, including their precious courthouse.

Brazos County should thank us as the source of any limited control they have over who carries where - we, our law-abiding good nature, and our handgun licenses are what empower them in some limited capacity to have that authority.

You'd think they wouldn't want to tip over that applecart. Don't they want nice things?

[Soccerdad1995]

I hate to say it, but we might need to attach criminal penalties to all of the individuals involved in this nefarious behavior. That would include the deputy who bars your entry, and every single person in his or her chain of command that instructed him to do this. Make it a small fine ($50 - $100) for the first offense and jail time for repeated offenses. I am guessing it would only take a few fines before rank and file LEO's started questioning these types of unlawful orders from above.

And there is plenty of precedent for punishing people who commit crimes that they were "ordered" to commit.

[Soccerdad1995]

To the OP - You may also want to file a complaint with the Sheriffs office. Even if his deputies are not committing a crime under current law, they are definitely aiding and abetting the commission of a criminal act by the county government. I have to think that violates some type of ethical standard

[mr1337]

File a written complaint to the sheriff's office and then go back after 3 business days to see if they tell you the same thing. If they do, file a written complaint to the AG.

https://www.texasfirearmscoalition.com/ ... aint-forms

Verbal notice that LTC's are not allowed in with their handgun is still notice under 30.06, which they are not allowed to give unless it's the specific areas utilized by the court.

[steveincowtown]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse, unless you are the law.

The penalties for LEO's willfully enforcing laws incorrectly should be VERY VERY HIGH. If I did my job incorrectly repeatedly I would cease to have one.

IMHO, first time should be a warning.

Second offense should be termination.

There are great LEOs out there, but it really aggravates me when non existent laws are enforced.

[nightmare69]

I’ve been following a case with the Brazos County courthouse which 19 years ago or so posted the entire courthouse building (a 4 story muli-use building with many offices, including county and district clerk offices) with a 30.06 sign. For the last 17-18 years there has been, and still is, a metal detector at the door manned by Brazos county sheriff deputies. One cannot even enter with a small pocket knife.

Here is a link to the Ken Paxton letter from March 30, 2016 saying they are in violation, as well as a ruling letter from Ken Paxton’s office saying the matter is closed because they removed the sign. That letter is from November 10, 2016.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/fi ... thouse.pdf


I went to the courthouse today. The signs are indeed removed. Now there is a generic sign that says basically “No Weapons Allowed, PC 46.03” I called and spoke with the security department. They said they do not allow anyone with an LTC to enter the building while carrying a handgun. I asked why 30.06 was removed. They said the AG office required it, but allows the generic sign. I reiterated that it’s not a legal sign prohibiting concealed carry by an LTC holder. They again stated that a citizen with an LTC may not enter with his or her firearm. I also confirmed that the county clerk is still located in the building (along with other non court offices).

I then entered the building. Five feet from the inside of the front door is the metal detector. I stopped short of that to speak with a deputy. The polite deputy I spoke with in person told me the exact same thing.


So am I missing something? It seems to me they are pulling a fast one. They removed the sign but still deny access to LTCs at the security screening point at the entrance. I called the AG assistant’s office, and Andrea said I should launch a complaint. I’d love opinions. Should I just call the AG complaint hotline. It seems to me this matter has already been ruled on by the AG, and Brazos county is just pulling a sneaky stunt to act like they are in compliance if an AG investigator stops by to view the entrance and check for a sign (which is now gone).

Smith county said to local news that the AG's opinion is just that,an opinion that until a law is passed preventing them from posting, they will continue to do so. I believe all the signs are still up.