Legal Definition of Shouldering

[Abraham]

MadMonkey,

You've provided some great information, but my focus is more about overall length comparison while considering shoulder shooting comfort.

With the AR pistol shouldering or actually not shouldering bother, I see a rifle that is short and can be shouldered in the AUG. Undoubtedly, the AUG has it's own special disadvantages, but can be shouldered, is very short, shoots the same cartridge, etc....in other words, you don't have to stay within and satisfy some oddball parameter government bureaucrats insistence.

[azul]

If you want a .223 fired from the shoulder, get a rifle. If minimum OAL is important, get a bullpup and deal with the down sides, or register it as SBR and deal with the down sides.

If you want a .223 pistol then get a pistol. I enjoy the Dickens out of mine, especially with a reflex dot sight.

[AJSully421]

Download a NFA trust template.

5 minutes of your time on a form 1.

$200

Postage

Cost of sending your lower to Ident Marking in Rockwall.

That is all it takes to be able to be completely rid of these "sig brace shouldering" questions...

Go get a SBR stamp and don't worry about it.

[MadMonkey]

MadMonkey,

You've provided some great information, but my focus is more about overall length comparison while considering shoulder shooting comfort.

With the AR pistol shouldering or actually not shouldering bother, I see a rifle that is short and can be shouldered in the AUG. Undoubtedly, the AUG has it's own special disadvantages, but can be shouldered, is very short, shoots the same cartridge, etc....in other words, you don't have to stay within and satisfy some oddball parameter government bureaucrats insistence.

Well, that was what I meant by my last sentence... if you're worried about shouldering, then get something that is a legal rifle, because there's a slim chance that you'll be as effective with a cheek-welded pistol as you would with a shouldered bullpup.

It comes down to what you're comfortable with. See sig

Download a NFA trust template. -snip-

I can't answer for everyone, but I much prefer the freedom of being able to carry an AR pistol anywhere I can take my regular conceal carry pistols, especially when traveling across state lines... not to mention not having to pay yet another illegitimate tax.

[MadMonkey]

Just for giggles, here's a bad pic of one of mine

[AJSully421]

MadMonkey,

You've provided some great information, but my focus is more about overall length comparison while considering shoulder shooting comfort.

With the AR pistol shouldering or actually not shouldering bother, I see a rifle that is short and can be shouldered in the AUG. Undoubtedly, the AUG has it's own special disadvantages, but can be shouldered, is very short, shoots the same cartridge, etc....in other words, you don't have to stay within and satisfy some oddball parameter government bureaucrats insistence.

Well, that was what I meant by my last sentence... if you're worried about shouldering, then get something that is a legal rifle, because there's a slim chance that you'll be as effective with a cheek-welded pistol as you would with a shouldered bullpup.

It comes down to what you're comfortable with. See sig

Download a NFA trust template. -snip-

I can't answer for everyone, but I much prefer the freedom of being able to carry an AR pistol anywhere I can take my regular conceal carry pistols, especially when traveling across state lines... not to mention not having to pay yet another illegitimate tax.

Knock yourself out... while I enjoy my suppressors and short barrels.

[MadMonkey]

Knock yourself out... while I enjoy my suppressors and short barrels.

Suppressors are an entirely different discussion and have no bearing on SBRs vs pistols. We both enjoy short barrels

[OldCannon]

So, here is my question brought about by your number 2) item. If they don't have "sneaky undercover agents wandering around gun ranges", how would they ever hope to catch someone shouldering an AR pistol with a Sig Brace? I'm not talking about people making videos where the individual(s) are creating evidence, but just run-of-the-mill folks doing that? And if they aren't actively engaged in trying to bust people for doing that, why even promulgate a rule against it? The whole thing smacks of bureaucrats making rules for the sake of making rules, something that way too many government agencies are guilty of doing. For the record, I do NOT own an AR pistol, nor a Sig Brace, nor any similar item.

You nailed it. I've worked with the ATF for many years now. Like many understaffed, law-enforcement organizations, they are normally preoccupied with going after the low hanging fruit (the really bad people/gangs that can put the biggest dent in illegal actions). On occasion, something will happen that raises the ire of the wrong, politically-connected person, and they will conduct an investigation.

The ATF constantly complicates things by inserting new laws into existing ones (they call it "clarification"), so it tends to get civilians worried, and the whole shouldering thing is a true tempest in a teapot.

Almost all ATF employees I've talked to agree that "shouldering" is unenforceable and will not stand up in court. You are FAR more likely to get in trouble if you're using a "solvent trap" attachment for the barrel of your gun, and even with that, you would have to be brazenly demonstrating that your "solvent trap" is genuinely being used as a suppressor (if you're manufacturing/selling them, on the other hand, you can be certain you are already on their radar).

[Soccerdad1995]

and make sure you pay the use tax to Austin when you buy ammo online.

I am not an expert, but I believe you only pay that tax when you actually use the product, not when you buy it.

[ScottDLS]

and make sure you pay the use tax to Austin when you buy ammo online.

I am not an expert, but I believe you only pay that tax when you actually use the product, not when you buy it.

You pay it when you bring it/have shipped into Texas. You're "using" it by bringing it into your personal stash.

[zmcgooga]

Download a NFA trust template.

5 minutes of your time on a form 1.

$200

Postage

Cost of sending your lower to Ident Marking in Rockwall.

That is all it takes to be able to be completely rid of these "sig brace shouldering" questions...

Go get a SBR stamp and don't worry about it.

Just to clear it up, I wasn't questioning about the SIG Brace, I've read all the ATF opinions on it. I was more asking about just the buffer tube as I didn't know if that was legal/illegal which Troglodyte cleared up for me. Also just out of general curiousness as to what the legal definition of shouldering was considered.

[troglodyte]

Download a NFA trust template.

5 minutes of your time on a form 1.

$200

Postage

Cost of sending your lower to Ident Marking in Rockwall.

That is all it takes to be able to be completely rid of these "sig brace shouldering" questions...

Go get a SBR stamp and don't worry about it.

There are places a person may have a pistol and not a rifle or shotgun. An AR pistol allows for rifle calibers, higher capacity, and rifle-like accuracy out to medium ranges in a compact package.

[The Dude]

It's not safe to shoulder a rifle.