ND-I Feel Like Crap :(

[ELB]

+1 on distraction being a (the?) key issue. Also +1 on loading and unloading only when absolutely necessary. If you can figure out how to carry your 1911 instead of switching to another gun every day, it'll help.

My $.02 and Recommendations:

1. Focus totally on what you are doing at the time when administratively handling the gun. Don't think about anything else other than the procedure you are executing.

Instructing someone else is almost by definition distracting, and if you add in other stuff (like recovering from sickness etc) your distraction level increases, so save the instruction for a location where NDs are a good deal less of a problem, provided of course you are following all the other rules at the time. At least if you messed up at the range, loud noises are expected, and since OF COURSE you are at least following all the other rules, the bullet is impacting in the berm or backstop, where bullets are expected to impact.

2. I highly recommend you get a ballistic pad for those times when you have to administratively handle your gun. Shooting the bed, the carpet, and the concrete floor are probably preferable to sending it thru the wall of your apartment complex, but hardly ideal. I have one of these jobbies:

http://www.safedirection.com/

It is a ballistic pad that you put the muzzle of your pistol or rifle on while you do administrative actions. It will catch the bullet if you launch one. I know of some instances when this product was used, and it worked as advertised. Runs you $100+, but an ND could easily run you a lot more. (And no, I am not affiliated with the company.)

Someone tried to tell me having one of these somehow encourages you to let down your guard. HOGWASH. By the Four Rules and common sense, you must have your muzzle pointed in a safe direction, which means something that really will absorb the impact of a bullet without damaging anything important. Lots of people think this means the wall or the floor or the gun safe or or the bookcase or whatever, but when you actually blow a hole in it, it doesn't seem like such a good idea. (Don't ask me how I know this! ) I'll bet you're not particularly happy about having a hole in your mattress and the carpet, and if your landlord has caught onto this, I'll bet he is not pleased either!

I keep mine by the bed, on the floor, and each morning when I get up, haul my pistol out of the bedside drawer and chamber check it, I use the ballistic pad. I also take it with me when I travel, so in the unfortunate circumstance that I screw up at least I am not buying the hotel a new toilet or airconditioner -- or worse, answering questions about how my bullet ended up in the room/person next door/above/below/out in the parking lot. (In fact, when I fly, I put this in my luggage first, and at destination when I load up in the restroom, I just put the bag over the toilet and put the muzzle against the side with the ballistic pad).

Of course we should strive for perfection, but I don't buy the notion that "people who have had them/people who are going to" is somehow fatalistic or standards-lowering. It is an accurate appraisal and warning of human frailty. Jeff Cooper recognized that people screw up, so the Four Rules of gun handling are overlapping. If you do your best to follow all of them, then when you inadvertently violate one of them (as in your case), having followed the others prevents total disaster (as in your case also). Otherwise we'd only need one rule!

If you are carrying a gun for self-defense, then you will be carrying it and handling it in all kinds of situations and states of physical alertness/fitness. Mr. Violent Criminal Actor is not going to give you a pass because you are ill today and didn't handle your gun "to be safe." Ergo, you have to acquire the habits (safe admin handling) and accoutrements (e.g ballistic pad, quality holster, quality handgun) to allow you to be as safe as possible while still being armed. You can't be 100% safe while carrying a gun. Neither can you be 100% safe NOT carrying a gun. You have to assess the risk of each, and train and equip accordingly.

It's good that you felt like crap after the ND. Shows you have a sense of responsibility. Now, like the others said, figure out what you need to do to not have that happen again, and march on.

Best wishes,

elb

[yobdab]

There are two kinds of gun owners those who have had an AD/ND and those who are going to.

Completely disagree.

I even read one time that Sheriff Jim Wilson killed a gas meter in front of his house by having a AD thru his front window. So if it could happen to him it can happen to anyone. Even a CHL instructor

[badkarma56]

I'm pleased to hear that no one was injured or killed in this circumstance. I concur with many of the other's safety recommendations (especially the press-check tip for inspecting the chamber), but I do wish to add my two cents...

The ND in this particular situation would likely have been avoided if the weapon involved had been equipped with a decocker. I currently own four pistols (i.e., Beretta 92FS, H&K USP9C & USP45, and a Sig P226 Navy), and each of these weapons is equipped with a decocker. Although my father owned a 1911 pistol, he always used to gripe about one missing safety feature on these weapons...there's no truly "safe" way to lower the hammer on a loaded 1911 chamber. Pulling the trigger, and "thumbing" the hammer down is not inherently safe and will bypass any passive safety features built into the pistol (e.g., firing pin block, safety intercept notch, etc.).

I realize that the 1911 was designed to be carried in condition-1, but there are occasions with any single-action or double/single-action weapon where you'll want to safely lower that hammer on a "hot" chamber...pretty tough to do on a 1911. If the weapon is double-action only, there is no need for a decocker (the hammer always sits in the uncocked postion).

Now I also realize that the original poster was not intending to leave the weapon charged, he simply forgot that he had inadvertantly chambered a round previously. However, if he had been handling a pistol equipped with a decocker, he would have never pulled the trigger to lower the hammer in the first place, he simply would have decocked the pistol instead.

As we all know, or should know, modern guns will not fire unless you pull the trigger. Therefore, I consider a decocker to be an indispensable feature on my pistols. I used to feel this way about manual safeties, but now I consider this safety feature to be more important. Indeed, your trigger finger is the REAL manual safety on any gun.

[nitrogen]

This story might make you feel better.

I was taught how to shoot by a friend of mine; she worked as an armorer for her national guard unit.

We were out in her back yard, she was preparing to show me the basics. We had just gone over the 4 rules, and she was going to show me how to make sure the pistol was empty. We were working with her Glock.

she dropped the mag, and had the slide held back.
"You always want to drop the mag, and hold the slide back, that way you know nothing's in the chamber. Now i'll show you how to take the weapon down so you can clean it. Now that we know it's clear, we pull the takedown thing here, and we have to let the slide go and pull the trigger *BANG*"

Apparently, her extractor didn't get the last round out and it was stuck in the barrel.

[badkarma56]

This story might make you feel better.

I was taught how to shoot by a friend of mine; she worked as an armorer for her national guard unit.

We were out in her back yard, she was preparing to show me the basics. We had just gone over the 4 rules, and she was going to show me how to make sure the pistol was empty. We were working with her Glock.

she dropped the mag, and had the slide held back.
"You always want to drop the mag, and hold the slide back, that way you know nothing's in the chamber. Now i'll show you how to take the weapon down so you can clean it. Now that we know it's clear, we pull the takedown thing here, and we have to let the slide go and pull the trigger *BANG*"

Apparently, her extractor didn't get the last round out and it was stuck in the barrel.

Right on, dude...visually inspect that chamber every time!! I can hear my Dad in my head right now saying this over and over again like a mantra...

[dihappy]

...

Today my GF and i were on our way out, i have been sick in bed for 2 days and she convinced me to go to the doctor today ....

If this sickness included either fever or one of the many dehydrating symptoms, your mental capacity was diminished. It is a good idea to refrain from handling firearms unless absolutely necessary when ones mental state has been altered by chemicals, fatigue or illness. This is not meant as a slam but studies show hunter's have a lot more accidents when tired and or ill even with just a simple cold.

Don't be to harsh on yourself, by strict adherance to Rule 2 your ND had minor consequences and it will act as a personal lesson to help you refrain from repeating it.

Jeramae,

I was thinking about that, but it just seemed to easy to blame it on my illness although i do agree that i may have had an affect on my mental status.

Kinda off subject, but i was sicker than a dog for the past 2 or 3 days with what i though was Strep, i could hardly sleep it hurt so bad to swallow.

Pus pockets at the back of my throat, fever, body aching so much i didnt want to move, and a head/neck ache that made me miserable.

Well at the doctors i was told it wasnt Strep, and was given and antibiotic and told to stay on Tylenol. I feel 10x better now.

If this wasnt strep, it sure was the worst sore throat i have ever had or ever want to have.

[dihappy]

I keep thinking about how fortunate you were to point the gun in a safe direction when pulling the trigger. So that part of your safe gun handling practices paid off well. It could have been a lot worse.

Thank you for posting this. I'm a newbie to guns in general, and I need to be reminded every now and then that if folks a lot more experienced than me can have an ND, I sure could.

Fos, ill be reminded as well everytime i change sheets on my bed...theres a nice .45 caliber hole in it now :)

[dihappy]

ELB,

Man that was so nice of you to post that. And that safety pad thing is amazing, expensive, but amazing. I may have to get one of those.


Karma,
I love the decocker on my little Bersa .380! I never have to mess with the trigger and can safely lower the hammer and carry ready to fire with a trigger pull.

However, i love 1911's and unfortunatly, no decocker. I believe i have learned so much from my mistake and the instruction you fine folks have given me.

A 1911 is surely a different animal, and although all guns should be treated with respect, theres just something a little different about a 1911.

[KBCraig]

Although my father owned a 1911 pistol, he always used to gripe about one missing safety feature on these weapons...there's no truly "safe" way to lower the hammer on a loaded 1911 chamber. Pulling the trigger, and "thumbing" the hammer down is not inherently safe and will bypass any passive safety features built into the pistol (e.g., firing pin block, safety intercept notch, etc.).

Your father was correct: there is no inherently safe way to do that.

But what he left unsaid is, There is no valid reason to ever lower the hammer on a loaded 1911.

I realize that the 1911 was designed to be carried in condition-1, but there are occasions with any single-action or double/single-action weapon where you'll want to safely lower that hammer on a "hot" chamber...pretty tough to do on a 1911.

Yes, it is tough to do.

Now, what are those occasions upon which one might wish to lower the hammer on a loaded 1911? The only occasion which comes to my mind is when the hammer is lowered by pulling the trigger, followed shortly afterwards by a loud and intentional bang.

I can't think of any other reason to lower the hammer on a loaded 1911.

Kevin

[flintknapper]

However, i love 1911's and unfortunatly, no decocker.

Actually, Bill Laughridge of "Cylinder and Slide" fame... has a SFS kit that can be installed on your 1911. It allows you to carry the weapon with the hammer down but it remains fully ready to fire when you release the thumb safety.

Basically, you load your weapon as per usual (insert mag., rack slide) then you simply push the hammer forward (it will come to rest perfectly safe against the FP stop). When you need to use your weapon...just disengage the thumb safety and the trigger returns to the cocked position ready to drop. All safety features are retained (and one additional one added).

Personally, I see no reason to let the hammer down on a live round in a 1911, but... the SFS might be something to look into for those needing a way to safely lower the hammer.

http://www.cylinder-slide.com/

[austin]

I know others have said this, but your Manual of Arms was missing the visual and manual checking of the chamber with the slide locked back.

I agree with others that there is no reason for you to unload your pistol when you are in your house. What would you do during a home invasion or a break-in?

If you need to know the condition of your pistol, learn how to do a press check.

[txinvestigator]

There are two kinds of gun owners those who have had an AD/ND and those who are going to.

Completely disagree.

I even read one time that Sheriff Jim Wilson killed a gas meter in front of his house by having a AD thru his front window. So if it could happen to him it can happen to anyone. Even a CHL instructor

Who is Jim Wilson, and why is he special?

And I NEVER said it could not happen to anyone. I said I disagree that it either has happened to all gun owners or WILL happen. That is total bull.

[txinvestigator]

I'm pleased to hear that no one was injured or killed in this circumstance. I concur with many of the other's safety recommendations (especially the press-check tip for inspecting the chamber), but I do wish to add my two cents...

The ND in this particular situation would likely have been avoided if the weapon involved had been equipped with a decocker. I currently own four pistols (i.e., Beretta 92FS, H&K USP9C & USP45, and a Sig P226 Navy), and each of these weapons is equipped with a decocker. Although my father owned a 1911 pistol, he always used to gripe about one missing safety feature on these weapons...there's no truly "safe" way to lower the hammer on a loaded 1911 chamber. Pulling the trigger, and "thumbing" the hammer down is not inherently safe and will bypass any passive safety features built into the pistol (e.g., firing pin block, safety intercept notch, etc.).

I realize that the 1911 was designed to be carried in condition-1, but there are occasions with any single-action or double/single-action weapon where you'll want to safely lower that hammer on a "hot" chamber...

Why? There is no reason to do that.

[badkarma56]

I'm pleased to hear that no one was injured or killed in this circumstance. I concur with many of the other's safety recommendations (especially the press-check tip for inspecting the chamber), but I do wish to add my two cents...

The ND in this particular situation would likely have been avoided if the weapon involved had been equipped with a decocker. I currently own four pistols (i.e., Beretta 92FS, H&K USP9C & USP45, and a Sig P226 Navy), and each of these weapons is equipped with a decocker. Although my father owned a 1911 pistol, he always used to gripe about one missing safety feature on these weapons...there's no truly "safe" way to lower the hammer on a loaded 1911 chamber. Pulling the trigger, and "thumbing" the hammer down is not inherently safe and will bypass any passive safety features built into the pistol (e.g., firing pin block, safety intercept notch, etc.).

I realize that the 1911 was designed to be carried in condition-1, but there are occasions with any single-action or double/single-action weapon where you'll want to safely lower that hammer on a "hot" chamber...

Why? There is no reason to do that.

Hey, Txinvestigator, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. With my weapons, there are occasions where I want a secondary weapon loaded but not completely good-to-go. My primary home defense weapon (Beretta 92FS), and my carry weapon (H&K USP9C) are both kept at the ready (the 92FS is kept in condition-2, i.e. chambered round/hammer down; while my USP9C is carried in condition-1, cocked and locked).

Condition-2 is a recognized "state of readiness" for the 1911 pistol, primarily when one wishes to store the pistol as a secondary weapon that can be "brought into the fight" by manually cocking the hammer. Of course, putting a 1911 into condition-2 is problematic due to the absence of a decocker...the operator must "thumb the hammer down" on a loaded chamber, an obvious risk of ND is presented here. I see this as an issue with the 1911, you may not, and that's fine.

There is no such issue with placing my 92FS into condition-2 because the weapon possesses a decocker to safely lower the hammer on a loaded chamber. The safety/decocker on the 92FS does not allow for condition-1 carry, while my USP's control lever does.

As for our fellow member who suffered this mishap, for his own reasons, he was attempting to lower the hammer of his weapon at the time of the ND. Had the weapon been equipped with a decocker the ND would not have occurred because he wouldn't have had to pull the trigger to lower the hammer. This mistake was compounded by the fact that he had unwittingly chambered a round previously...so he was also unaware of his weapon's actual state of readiness at the time of the incident. Make no mistake, the event could have also been prevented by performing a press-check on the weapon, and then clearing the pistol.

[Venus Pax]

I'm sorry this happened, but glad you were taking other safety measures (ie, pointing the gun in a safe direction).

I agree with the posters that advised against unloading the gun each morning. It really isn't necessary. If you don't like a loaded gun being easily accessible to others (children, for example), I would recommend a small safe that can be mounted to a closet shelf. The one below is a random one I pulled up online; I know nothing about it. I tried to find the website of the one I have, but that company has stopped making them. It's a shame, as those safes had a good reputation.

http://www.storesonline.com/site/408162/product/A1Q20EB ETA: If you're interested, let everyone here know; a lot of posters on this board have small gun safes that they are satisfied with.

Dh & I each keep a gun near the bed, and the rest go in the gun safe.

Having a gun safe, however, would not have prevented the ND in your situation. You were ill and distracted. I'm glad you were in the good habit of pointing it in a safe direction, and I'm especially thankful no one was hurt or killed.