Yet Another CoE question

[rocinante]

Apologies if this specific question has been covered; if so I failed to find it. And I'm afraid I know the answer, but will ask just in case:

I know the Army Corps of Engineers forbids guns on CoE land and water. What if one has a boat docked on a CoE lake that has living accommodations, e.g. cooking, sleeping, and sanitary accommodations? Such a boat can be considered a second (or vacation) residence at least for IRS purposes. How do one's right to keep a gun in a residence interact with the CoE rules?

[ScottDLS]

Apologies if this specific question has been covered; if so I failed to find it. And I'm afraid I know the answer, but will ask just in case:

I know the Army Corps of Engineers forbids guns on CoE land and water. What if one has a boat docked on a CoE lake that has living accommodations, e.g. cooking, sleeping, and sanitary accommodations? Such a boat can be considered a second (or vacation) residence at least for IRS purposes. How do one's right to keep a gun in a residence interact with the CoE rules?

Federal rules don't provide an exemption for ones residence in this case (e.g. living on base housing on an Army base).

[rocinante]

Closing the loop on my own question:

Doing some more research, I came to the same effective conclusion via different reasoning. Specifically, that any residence exemption does not come into play because the CoE Title 36 rules do not allow residences on CoE property or water without special permission. So while a boat might be a considered a residence by the IRS, it is not by the CoE.

What I have not found is anything that says what the offense and penalties would be for carrying on CoE property. I found property-specific rules that say anything from "you would be asked to remove the firearm" to " you could face substantial fines and jail time".

[couzin]

You found first part answer - second answer depends on which Federal district court your are in when the offense occurs. Where I worked the "forfeiture schedule" was $200 and mandatory appearance. If magistrate deems there to be other circumstances (additional counts/citations, failure to identify, criminal history, nose buggers, etc), there may be an enhancement and jail time. The USACE Ranger issues the citation at the time of the offense. If there is less than full cooperation, or there is an escalation or threat, a Ranger can request local law enforcement, game warden, or Federal law enforcement assistance and an arrest may result. Having said that, in most cases you would likely just to be asked to take the firearm off USACE property. But - that also depends on where the offense occurs - in California I would suspect the fine is way higher and an arrest is probable.

[ScottDLS]

You found first part answer - second answer depends on which Federal district court your are in when the offense occurs. Where I worked the "forfeiture schedule" was $200 and mandatory appearance. If magistrate deems there to be other circumstances (additional counts/citations, failure to identify, criminal history, nose buggers, etc), there may be an enhancement and jail time. The USACE Ranger issues the citation at the time of the offense. If there is less than full cooperation, or there is an escalation or threat, a Ranger can request local law enforcement, game warden, or Federal law enforcement assistance and an arrest may result. Having said that, in most cases you would likely just to be asked to take the firearm off USACE property. But - that also depends on where the offense occurs - in California I would suspect the fine is way higher and an arrest is probable.

This looks like about the same for ACOE as for USPS property (not buildings). The offense is a Federal "infraction" which can be up to 30 days jail and $5000 fine, but is generally much less and jail time rarely assessed. Except for the possible jail time this is kind of the federal equivalent of a Texas Class C misdemeanor. The down side is that for Texas LTC purposes the possibility of jail makes it a class A misdemeanor for which you could lose your Texas license for 5 years.


At least it's not a Federal Felony (GFSZA) with 10years/$250,000 like driving within 1000' of a school with your rifle in the pickup rack or loaded in your trunk....

[couzin]

Not quite - the code you are referencing (18 U.S. Code § 930) is the same on postal, Federal, or USACE property where Federal employees regularly conduct business. The original post was about parks, lands, and waters controlled by USACE and under the citation authority of USACE Rangers. Buildings open up a whole different can of worms...

[ScottDLS]

Not quite - the code you are referencing (18 U.S. Code § 930) is the same on postal, Federal, or USACE property where Federal employees regularly conduct business. The original post was about parks, lands, and waters controlled by USACE and under the citation authority of USACE Rangers. Buildings open up a whole different can of worms...

18 USC 930 is not what I was referring to which is why I said "property" the CFR for ACOE and USPS is surely different but in both cases the penalty is a Federal infraction. 18 USC 930 is a criminal statute relevant only for buildings and violation is a Federal Misdemeanor 1 year/$10000, but requires posting of a sign. It's an open question whether you could get a conviction on "property" that's not posted. Chas. mentioned a case involving a person on NASA property who was cleared...your mileage may vary...