Gun Show George R Brown CCW

[zimmerdesignz]

For me it was not an arguing point. If you would be taking your gun out of holster or open carry it was to prevent Negligent Discharges. If you were CC and not taking it out then walk right in, no problems. I agree with this behaviour at a gun show to prevent the Negligent Discharge. Have you seen some of the people at gun shows. Some of them are not top of the gene pool and I would be worried about a discharge LOL.

[rotor]

It's on government property. They can't stop you.

Went to the Wichita Falls Gun and Knife show yesterday which is on City owned property and couldn't believe it was posted 30.06 and 30.07. The deputy sheriff people manning the entrance were actually part of the illegal act of keeping licensed people out of the show. I did not enter but apparently the deputies (I guess off duty) were requiring people to unload their guns and use one of those plastic ties to enter or put their guns in their cars. So we have LEO people illegally denying lawful entrance into a gun show on City of Wichita Falls property. Of course by the time any action can be taken the show will be over. Email to sheriff and city manager done. They lost my business at that gun show. Signs will be down on Monday as show will be over. Posted to Texas3006.com

Just because the signs are not up for three consecutive days does not mean that you cannot still file with the city and complain to the AG's office. It might take a while, but file it and I bet that the show in 3-4 months from now won't have a 30.06 sign.

The violation is by the property owner, not the show operator. The property owner needs official notice by the AG that they are committing a crime by posting these illegal signs. Then if they allow the same property to be illegally posted again 6 months later, they should get a daily fine X 180 days (from the original AG ruling).

We really need to tighten this up in the next legislative session. This criminal act should be treated the same as any other criminal act. If a property owner instructed their employees to assault people as they walked in the door, the police would be called and the offenders would be arrested. I would like to see the same happen to anyone enforcing these illegal signs, especially if they are off duty LEO's who should know better.

I received an email from the City Manager that he had notified the gun show organizer (We have communicated to him that these are not legal and should not be displayed in the future. Again, thank you for bringing this to our attention.) and hopefully this solves the problem. Now if the next show is posted that is a different matter. The other issue is disabling your gun or forcing you to remove cartridges. There is no way I will do this and there is nothing in the law that allows anyone to let you carry but force you to be "disarmed" at the same time. Either you are allowed to carry or you are not.

[rotor]

For me it was not an arguing point. If you would be taking your gun out of holster or open carry it was to prevent Negligent Discharges. If you were CC and not taking it out then walk right in, no problems. I agree with this behaviour at a gun show to prevent the Negligent Discharge. Have you seen some of the people at gun shows. Some of them are not top of the gene pool and I would be worried about a discharge LOL.

Taking your gun out of your holster is a definite no-no unless you are using it for defense. But if you believe that your gun should be disabled to prevent a negligent discharge then perhaps it should always be disabled. Most people at these shows I would assume to be more intelligent than the general population. Still, I personally would not open carry at a gun show and really don't want to open carry anywhere except on my owned property. Concealed is after all concealed.

[TreyHouston]

It's on government property. They can't stop you.

Went to the Wichita Falls Gun and Knife show yesterday which is on City owned property and couldn't believe it was posted 30.06 and 30.07. The deputy sheriff people manning the entrance were actually part of the illegal act of keeping licensed people out of the show. I did not enter but apparently the deputies (I guess off duty) were requiring people to unload their guns and use one of those plastic ties to enter or put their guns in their cars. So we have LEO people illegally denying lawful entrance into a gun show on City of Wichita Falls property. Of course by the time any action can be taken the show will be over. Email to sheriff and city manager done. They lost my business at that gun show. Signs will be down on Monday as show will be over. Posted to Texas3006.com

Just out of curiosity...... was there anything keeping you from simply concealing your gun and walking right on in?

My gun was concealed but to be honest I did not want to risk the chance of being arrested even though I know I could beat the rap. I also had a discussion with the two deputies asking them how come the place was posted, etc. They did not seem knowledgeable about the laws of posting on government property but were very courteous and I figured that I would fight this through the City Manager and file an AG complaint if needed. Hopefully this type of posting will not happen again. Joe Tom White, who runs the gun show has not responded to my emails. Still waiting on the Sheriff and City Manager but it is the weekend.

Why do people keep thinking will be arrested for misdemeanor? Cops don't want to do hours of paperwork. The worst that would ever happen is you were written to ticket! It is up to the courts to decide if you "saw" the sign and IF they will stick to the $200 ticket. Dont forget according to last years statics you have more of a chance being arrested to speeding than the 0% LTCers "caught" for trespassing!!!!!!

[Jusme]

I went to the Ft. Worth gun Show on May 1st. These shows had been posted in the past, but the only sign they had was put up by Premier Gun shows which said no loaded firearms. I CC right past the sign. I agree that anyone who goes to a gun show and is looking for accessories for their carry gun, then it needs to be unloaded, but if you are like me, I had no intention of unholstering my gun, so no need to disable it. But I have seen some crazy things done by people at gun shows.

I'm glad that you got the city to respond and notify the gun show about the signs, hopefully these type of things will become a thing of the past soon.

[rotor]

It's on government property. They can't stop you.

Went to the Wichita Falls Gun and Knife show yesterday which is on City owned property and couldn't believe it was posted 30.06 and 30.07. The deputy sheriff people manning the entrance were actually part of the illegal act of keeping licensed people out of the show. I did not enter but apparently the deputies (I guess off duty) were requiring people to unload their guns and use one of those plastic ties to enter or put their guns in their cars. So we have LEO people illegally denying lawful entrance into a gun show on City of Wichita Falls property. Of course by the time any action can be taken the show will be over. Email to sheriff and city manager done. They lost my business at that gun show. Signs will be down on Monday as show will be over. Posted to Texas3006.com

Just out of curiosity...... was there anything keeping you from simply concealing your gun and walking right on in?

My gun was concealed but to be honest I did not want to risk the chance of being arrested even though I know I could beat the rap. I also had a discussion with the two deputies asking them how come the place was posted, etc. They did not seem knowledgeable about the laws of posting on government property but were very courteous and I figured that I would fight this through the City Manager and file an AG complaint if needed. Hopefully this type of posting will not happen again. Joe Tom White, who runs the gun show has not responded to my emails. Still waiting on the Sheriff and City Manager but it is the weekend.

Why do people keep thinking will be arrested for misdemeanor? Cops don't want to do hours of paperwork. The worst that would ever happen is you were written to ticket! It is up to the courts to decide if you "saw" the sign and IF they will stick to the $200 ticket. Dont forget according to last years statics you have more of a chance being arrested to speeding than the 0% LTCers "caught" for trespassing!!!!!!

So I didn't want to waste my time paying or fighting a $200 fine. I didn't go in and I won't go in because of the mentality of the gun show promoter. I could have put my gun in the car and fought it later but I didn't. If this was a valid sign than it would have been class c but there are some places it is class a. It was not a valid sign (I know that). The deputies working the door did not seem too knowledgeable about anything that they were doing and I don't know how they would have handled the situation. Much easier to avoid and fight through channels than to start trying to teach LEO the law. I will let their boss do that ( and he still has not responded to my email).

[Soccerdad1995]

For me it was not an arguing point. If you would be taking your gun out of holster or open carry it was to prevent Negligent Discharges. If you were CC and not taking it out then walk right in, no problems. I agree with this behaviour at a gun show to prevent the Negligent Discharge. Have you seen some of the people at gun shows. Some of them are not top of the gene pool and I would be worried about a discharge LOL.

It is illegal for this show operator to require OC'ers to disable their weapons, unless the OC'ers plan to unholster at some point, of course. I understand that you personally are OK with this illegal requirement, but please understand that it is still illegal. This is an important distinction.

[C-dub]

For me it was not an arguing point. If you would be taking your gun out of holster or open carry it was to prevent Negligent Discharges. If you were CC and not taking it out then walk right in, no problems. I agree with this behaviour at a gun show to prevent the Negligent Discharge. Have you seen some of the people at gun shows. Some of them are not top of the gene pool and I would be worried about a discharge LOL.

It is illegal for this show operator to require OC'ers to disable their weapons, unless the OC'ers plan to unholster at some point, of course. I understand that you personally are OK with this illegal requirement, but please understand that it is still illegal. This is an important distinction.

I was kind of wondering the same thing. I'm not sure if it is illegal to be required to disable or unload a firearm that is being carried in a legal manor. They are not saying that we can't OC, but requiring us to disable the gun. I'm not sure about holsters other than my own, but I'm not sure my handgun will fit back into my holster with that zip tie on it. Do many?

[Soccerdad1995]

For me it was not an arguing point. If you would be taking your gun out of holster or open carry it was to prevent Negligent Discharges. If you were CC and not taking it out then walk right in, no problems. I agree with this behaviour at a gun show to prevent the Negligent Discharge. Have you seen some of the people at gun shows. Some of them are not top of the gene pool and I would be worried about a discharge LOL.

It is illegal for this show operator to require OC'ers to disable their weapons, unless the OC'ers plan to unholster at some point, of course. I understand that you personally are OK with this illegal requirement, but please understand that it is still illegal. This is an important distinction.

I was kind of wondering the same thing. I'm not sure if it is illegal to be required to disable or unload a firearm that is being carried in a legal manor. They are not saying that we can't OC, but requiring us to disable the gun. I'm not sure about holsters other than my own, but I'm not sure my handgun will fit back into my holster with that zip tie on it. Do many?

Hopefully others will chime in, but here is my 2 cents. If it is illegal to prohibit OC (or CC), then logic would dictate that it is also illegal to require that you render your gun unusable in order to carry it. Also, as you point out, it may be impossible to re-holster your gun with the required zip tie, depending on holster design.

Now if you wish to carry your weapon in your hand, and not in a holster, then I believe that restrictions can be placed on that activity, since you have no legal right to do that, barring explicit permission.

[TreyHouston]

It's on government property. They can't stop you.

Went to the Wichita Falls Gun and Knife show yesterday which is on City owned property and couldn't believe it was posted 30.06 and 30.07. The deputy sheriff people manning the entrance were actually part of the illegal act of keeping licensed people out of the show. I did not enter but apparently the deputies (I guess off duty) were requiring people to unload their guns and use one of those plastic ties to enter or put their guns in their cars. So we have LEO people illegally denying lawful entrance into a gun show on City of Wichita Falls property. Of course by the time any action can be taken the show will be over. Email to sheriff and city manager done. They lost my business at that gun show. Signs will be down on Monday as show will be over. Posted to Texas3006.com

Just out of curiosity...... was there anything keeping you from simply concealing your gun and walking right on in?

My gun was concealed but to be honest I did not want to risk the chance of being arrested even though I know I could beat the rap. I also had a discussion with the two deputies asking them how come the place was posted, etc. They did not seem knowledgeable about the laws of posting on government property but were very courteous and I figured that I would fight this through the City Manager and file an AG complaint if needed. Hopefully this type of posting will not happen again. Joe Tom White, who runs the gun show has not responded to my emails. Still waiting on the Sheriff and City Manager but it is the weekend.

Why do people keep thinking will be arrested for misdemeanor? Cops don't want to do hours of paperwork. The worst that would ever happen is you were written to ticket! It is up to the courts to decide if you "saw" the sign and IF they will stick to the $200 ticket. Dont forget according to last years statics you have more of a chance being arrested to speeding than the 0% LTCers "caught" for trespassing!!!!!!

So I didn't want to waste my time paying or fighting a $200 fine. I didn't go in and I won't go in because of the mentality of the gun show promoter. I could have put my gun in the car and fought it later but I didn't. If this was a valid sign than it would have been class c but there are some places it is class a. It was not a valid sign (I know that). The deputies working the door did not seem too knowledgeable about anything that they were doing and I don't know how they would have handled the situation. Much easier to avoid and fight through channels than to start trying to teach LEO the law. I will let their boss do that ( and he still has not responded to my email).

i wouldn't try to educate a LEO either!

[twomillenium]

I agree with rotor taking your loaded concealed or open handgun out of holster is a no-no. If you are shopping for accessories and need to check fit on handgun, then that handgun should not be carried loaded into show and if the show operator wants to have action secure then you should abide by that.