AG opinion KP-0089

[dhoobler]

Summary: Chapter 25 of the Parks and Wildlife Code does not authorize a river authority to adopt regulations that prohibit the open carry of handguns on river authority parklands.

https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/op ... n-opinions

[AJSully421]

Well, no kidding. Stinking tyrants at every level of government.

[Pariah3j]

I know I've heard/read some grumblings about the speed in which the AG's office has responded to things of this nature. While it has felt like there was some feet dragging involved in a few of the complaints/cases, the overall results when the AG responds has been very through and well thought out(IMO). Now lets hope the River Authority doesn't just shrug and say 'meh, what's he going to do about it' and proceed like the AG didn't just tell them no.

[MeMelYup]

Reading KP-0089, a person can conclude that no state agency can make a requirement effecting firearms unless it is stipulated in 46.03 or 46.035. This includes agencies like family services, Texas BATFE, etc.

[ScottDLS]

Reading KP-0089, a person can conclude that no state agency can make a requirement effecting firearms unless it is stipulated in 46.03 or 46.035. This includes agencies like family services, Texas BATFE, etc.

Texas has a Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives?

[Jusme]

Reading KP-0089, a person can conclude that no state agency can make a requirement effecting firearms unless it is stipulated in 46.03 or 46.035. This includes agencies like family services, Texas BATFE, etc.

Texas has a Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives?

I think he meant TABC

[MeMelYup]

Reading KP-0089, a person can conclude that no state agency can make a requirement effecting firearms unless it is stipulated in 46.03 or 46.035. This includes agencies like family services, Texas BATFE, etc.

Texas has a Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives?

I think he meant TABC

Yup.

[ScottDLS]

Kind of figured. Now if I can just tie in GFSZA...

[AJSully421]

I had occasion to talk to so someone on the AG's 30.06 complaint team and asked them why it took so long to get this stuff going. He said that they had to build this thing from the ground up. All that the legislature said was that the AG's office was going to handle these complaints, but implementing and enacting this brand new delegated authority was a time-consuming matter.

He said that they had to have meeting after meeting about how to best follow the law and get results. They had to figure out what their legal authority was, and actually had to stop down and wait a couple of times while the AG's opinions on a couple of issues where that decision would apply to a certain situation. Then they had to decide how to properly apply that authority, create a process map, make assignments for the staff, and then, and only then, could they start handling complaints.

He also said that they have actually traveled to several places in the state to look at the buildings / rooms in question and how they are laid out to consult with the leaders of these towns and counties about how to accomplish keeping guns out of courtrooms and clerk's offices while allowing the rest of the building to be open for legal carry. He said that there has only been one so far that was being militant (He wouldn't tell me which one), and that the rest were sincerely concerned about striking a good balance between making sure that both they and us LTCers are following the law. In many cases, they have advised the location to post a sign such as "You are entering a courtroom / clerk's office and carry is prohibited here under TXPC 46.03(a)(3)."

There was much more to it than a meeting on September 1st where a few folks on the AG's staff were pointed at and told "You are now the 30.06 complaint team, now go get to work."

It was a great conversation.

[Jusme]

I had occasion to talk to so someone on the AG's 30.06 complaint team and asked them why it took so long to get this stuff going. He said that they had to build this thing from the ground up. All that the legislature said was that the AG's office was going to handle these complaints, but implementing and enacting this brand new delegated authority was a time-consuming matter.

He said that they had to have meeting after meeting about how to best follow the law and get results. They had to figure out what their legal authority was, and actually had to stop down and wait a couple of times while the AG's opinions on a couple of issues where that decision would apply to a certain situation. Then they had to decide how to properly apply that authority, create a process map, make assignments for the staff, and then, and only then, could they start handling complaints.

He also said that they have actually traveled to several places in the state to look at the buildings / rooms in question and how they are laid out to consult with the leaders of these towns and counties about how to accomplish keeping guns out of courtrooms and clerk's offices while allowing the rest of the building to be open for legal carry. He said that there has only been one so far that was being militant (He wouldn't tell me which one), and that the rest were sincerely concerned about striking a good balance between making sure that both they and us LTCers are following the law. In many cases, they have advised the location to post a sign such as "You are entering a courtroom / clerk's office and carry is prohibited here under TXPC 46.03(a)(3)."

There was much more to it than a meeting on September 1st where a few folks on the AG's staff were pointed at and told "You are now the 30.06 complaint team, now go get to work."

It was a great conversation.

That's why I haven't been too critical of the AG's office on this. They already have a lot on their plate, and this was new territory, that couldn't have a blanket solution for all facilities and situations. I spoke with Senator Brian Birdwell a few months ago, and we were discussing Campus Carry, and he was explaining that the reason they left a lot of the decision making to the individual universities is because each campus is unique, and a blanket law would not work for them all.

So too when dealing with different government facilities, they first have to notify them that a complaint has been filed, then await a response, then verify that signs are indeed posted, and as you describe possibly have to travel there to view the facilities, and then get together to decide what, if any violation there may be. I have been encouraged by the decisions and opinions so far, and I think in time it will all be worked out.

[WildBill]

Kind of figured. Now if I can just tie in GFSZA...

Don't you mean GEFSZA?

[ELB]

The background on this opinion is in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=83627&hilit=lavaca

Reading KP-0089, a person can conclude that no state agency can make a requirement effecting firearms unless it is stipulated in 46.03 or 46.035. This includes agencies like family services, Texas BATFE, etc.

This is a very good point. One of the reasons these opinions shouldn't be and aren't just dashed off "No you can't have a sign!" notes. AJSully notes that carefully built their organizational and legal authority structures to avoid doing something dumb that would torpedo the program. The AG is going to have to go to court to defend these opinions, and losing right off the bat because he didn't adequately build his case on the law as it is actually written and previous precedents and opinions would be disastrous. People think you can quote the 2A like it is a magic wand and poof! all the bad laws go away.

The Left figured out this stuff long ago and has been very successful in building the lower level legal arguments and precedents that the big case are made on. The only thing the good guys have done this has been on the legal and historical background of the 2A, and in this, along with some fortunate appointments to the SCOTUS, the good guys caught the Left napping. Many thought it was settled law that the 2A applied only to forming state militias, and that was that it was not an individual right, and that was that. They got lazy, sat on their haunches, and thought some how if they could just outspend the NRA guns would go away. 30 years of academic legal and historical shaped the battle space that allowed Gura and others to prevail in Heller, where even the liberal wing had to admit that the 2A is an individual right, and it ain't just about the militia (that finding was 9-0).

The AG's opinions and court cases will be important not only about signs in courthouses, but with respect to how gun rights are handled generally in Texas, and this can come up in unexpected ways. It is better for the AG to be right, than to be fast. As Wyatt Earp (I think) and many after him, "speed if fine, but accuracy is final."

[OldAg]

I had occasion to talk to so someone on the AG's 30.06 complaint team and asked them why it took so long to get this stuff going. He said that they had to build this thing from the ground up. All that the legislature said was that the AG's office was going to handle these complaints, but implementing and enacting this brand new delegated authority was a time-consuming matter.

He said that they had to have meeting after meeting about how to best follow the law and get results. They had to figure out what their legal authority was, and actually had to stop down and wait a couple of times while the AG's opinions on a couple of issues where that decision would apply to a certain situation. Then they had to decide how to properly apply that authority, create a process map, make assignments for the staff, and then, and only then, could they start handling complaints.

He also said that they have actually traveled to several places in the state to look at the buildings / rooms in question and how they are laid out to consult with the leaders of these towns and counties about how to accomplish keeping guns out of courtrooms and clerk's offices while allowing the rest of the building to be open for legal carry. He said that there has only been one so far that was being militant (He wouldn't tell me which one), and that the rest were sincerely concerned about striking a good balance between making sure that both they and us LTCers are following the law. In many cases, they have advised the location to post a sign such as "You are entering a courtroom / clerk's office and carry is prohibited here under TXPC 46.03(a)(3)."

There was much more to it than a meeting on September 1st where a few folks on the AG's staff were pointed at and told "You are now the 30.06 complaint team, now go get to work."

It was a great conversation.

I also spoke with one of their attorneys and part of the problem was with staffing. While the legislature created this workload, they did not increase the AG's staff proportionately. Additionally, I know that during the early months of the year, they lost at least one attorney that was working on several cases and all of those cases were piled onto another attorney that had his own list of complaints that he was researching. I agree that the staff member that I spoke with was conscientiously trying to address these issues as consistently and quickly as possible. I also thought it was a great conversation.

[AJSully421]

I had occasion to talk to so someone on the AG's 30.06 complaint team and asked them why it took so long to get this stuff going. He said that they had to build this thing from the ground up. All that the legislature said was that the AG's office was going to handle these complaints, but implementing and enacting this brand new delegated authority was a time-consuming matter.

He said that they had to have meeting after meeting about how to best follow the law and get results. They had to figure out what their legal authority was, and actually had to stop down and wait a couple of times while the AG's opinions on a couple of issues where that decision would apply to a certain situation. Then they had to decide how to properly apply that authority, create a process map, make assignments for the staff, and then, and only then, could they start handling complaints.

He also said that they have actually traveled to several places in the state to look at the buildings / rooms in question and how they are laid out to consult with the leaders of these towns and counties about how to accomplish keeping guns out of courtrooms and clerk's offices while allowing the rest of the building to be open for legal carry. He said that there has only been one so far that was being militant (He wouldn't tell me which one), and that the rest were sincerely concerned about striking a good balance between making sure that both they and us LTCers are following the law. In many cases, they have advised the location to post a sign such as "You are entering a courtroom / clerk's office and carry is prohibited here under TXPC 46.03(a)(3)."

There was much more to it than a meeting on September 1st where a few folks on the AG's staff were pointed at and told "You are now the 30.06 complaint team, now go get to work."

It was a great conversation.

I also spoke with one of their attorneys and part of the problem was with staffing. While the legislature created this workload, they did not increase the AG's staff proportionately. Additionally, I know that during the early months of the year, they lost at least one attorney that was working on several cases and all of those cases were piled onto another attorney that had his own list of complaints that he was researching. I agree that the staff member that I spoke with was conscientiously trying to address these issues as consistently and quickly as possible. I also thought it was a great conversation.

Wow, things are moving fast over there. I submitted an online complaint on Wednesday morning and received a copy of the notice sent from the OAG to the city today, on Saturday. Mail from Austin to me takes two days, so the letters to me and the city had to have been mailed on Thursday by 5pm. Basically a 24 hour turn around from receiving the complaint to getting letters mailed out.

I'd say that they have the complaint department up and running just fine now.

[locke_n_load]

I had occasion to talk to so someone on the AG's 30.06 complaint team and asked them why it took so long to get this stuff going. He said that they had to build this thing from the ground up. All that the legislature said was that the AG's office was going to handle these complaints, but implementing and enacting this brand new delegated authority was a time-consuming matter.

He said that they had to have meeting after meeting about how to best follow the law and get results. They had to figure out what their legal authority was, and actually had to stop down and wait a couple of times while the AG's opinions on a couple of issues where that decision would apply to a certain situation. Then they had to decide how to properly apply that authority, create a process map, make assignments for the staff, and then, and only then, could they start handling complaints.

He also said that they have actually traveled to several places in the state to look at the buildings / rooms in question and how they are laid out to consult with the leaders of these towns and counties about how to accomplish keeping guns out of courtrooms and clerk's offices while allowing the rest of the building to be open for legal carry. He said that there has only been one so far that was being militant (He wouldn't tell me which one), and that the rest were sincerely concerned about striking a good balance between making sure that both they and us LTCers are following the law. In many cases, they have advised the location to post a sign such as "You are entering a courtroom / clerk's office and carry is prohibited here under TXPC 46.03(a)(3)."

There was much more to it than a meeting on September 1st where a few folks on the AG's staff were pointed at and told "You are now the 30.06 complaint team, now go get to work."

It was a great conversation.

I also spoke with one of their attorneys and part of the problem was with staffing. While the legislature created this workload, they did not increase the AG's staff proportionately. Additionally, I know that during the early months of the year, they lost at least one attorney that was working on several cases and all of those cases were piled onto another attorney that had his own list of complaints that he was researching. I agree that the staff member that I spoke with was conscientiously trying to address these issues as consistently and quickly as possible. I also thought it was a great conversation.

Wow, things are moving fast over there. I submitted an online complaint on Wednesday morning and received a copy of the notice sent from the OAG to the city today, on Saturday. Mail from Austin to me takes two days, so the letters to me and the city had to have been mailed on Thursday by 5pm. Basically a 24 hour turn around from receiving the complaint to getting letters mailed out.

I'd say that they have the complaint department up and running just fine now.

yeah, except for the part where they actually deliver a verdict on the manner...
They have been doing better, but I know we are still waiting on some big ones still. Houston Zoo.