Missouri passes permitless conceal carry via massive pro gun bill

[FloridaViaMissouri]

Today, the last day of the 2016 leg. session both chambers with super majorities passes Sb656. This allows for conceal carry without a permit, expanded stand your ground, lifetime conceal carry permit options, online training to obtain a permit instead of classroom, and easier for military to renew a permit. It passes 114-36 in the house and 24-8 in the senate and now goes to Governor Nixon (D) which there is a very good chance he will veto it.

Nixon likely will use similar wording that the West Virginia governor did when he vetoed their permit less bill. Nixon claims he supports the 2a, and current ccw laws in Missouri and in 2003 as atty general he stuck up for the ccw law when it passed and an injunction was put on it he quickly appealed to the MO Supreme Court but in his second term he vetoed two important gun bills. He says he will review this carefully but he's hinting he will veto.

If vetoed it's almost certain there will be an override of it. You should see the liberals going nuts. Mom's Demand Action and Bloomberg poured tons of money with tv adds and such and it was a hard grassroots battle up until the last day to pass this but the house and senate were swamped with pro gun emails and calls demanding it to be passed. A couple of the anti gun women house members even cried on the floor today when debating the bill lol.

I hope yall in Texas can get permit less carry passed too. What makes this hurt is I just moved to Florida from Missouri last year. It takes getting used to because Missouri carry laws are a lot les restrictive up there. In MO you can use any permit you want and you can open carry an AR15 in Missouri. Florida laws are taking time to get used to. I don't carry full size 1911 anymore like I could in MO because up there they couldn't do a thing to me.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government ... ess-carry/

[Beiruty]

It would come one day to Texas. But not that fast. We just got OC and now we are seeing 30.06 and 30.07 popping up left and right.

[FloridaViaMissouri]

That sucks. Texas like Missouri had a hard fight for years I know to pass ccw as well. If I'm correct Texas doesn't have term limits right? Missouri when they got rid of term limits it allowed new blood to enter politics and got rid of deadwood which helped pass ccw.

I would guess because Texas has more transplants moving to the state and has a lot of big cities to deal with when it comes to passing gun laws. I think Texas in a few years will get it too.

Here in Florida it's doubtful. The state is becoming so urban and liberal now. The only thing that saves us is that our governor is elected in midterm election when dead voters and democrats don't turn out in as high numbers which allows republicans to be elected still. Rick Scott Barely won both times so good chance we might still get a democrat next election and we are having re-districting which is expected to heavily favor democrats too now.

Missouri outside of KC and St. Louis is a very pro gun state. Outside of stl and KC there are hardly any democrats left in the house or senate. Just about all of them are republicans now. Missouri would have had ccw for years if it wasn't for St. Louis.

[SigM4]

Hoping ol' Jay will seeing the writing on the wall and just sign this, however fully expect him to veto it. The only good that comes from that is the feeling I get when the legislature overrides it.

[FloridaViaMissouri]

Hoping ol' Jay will seeing the writing on the wall and just sign this, however fully expect him to veto it. The only good that comes from that is the feeling I get when the legislature overrides it.

I say it's at least 85 percent he vetoes this bill. There "might" be a chance he doesn't and just quietly lets it become law without signing in which I hope he does but don't count on it. He vetoed the 2nd amendment act in 2013 and the expanded open carry bill in 2014 which that one was overrode.

I think Nixon takes the same approach that the West Virginia governor did when he vetoed it both times. He will again claim he's pro gun and supports the right to carry but needs some oversight over it. That is my guess how the wording will go. He's not One Term Bob anti though. He stuck up for Missouri conceal carry law when the injunction was put on it and immediately appealed to MO Supreme Court and let an experienced lawfirm handle the case.

That's the hint I'm getting from what he said on Friday to the media after it passed.

Maybe you know more about the law but a few in the media including on the missouricarry forum claim that the few municipals that have ordinances against open carry that you won't be able to permit less conceal carry in those cities. However Missouri cities can't make individual firearms laws except regarding the open carry of them and I read the 41 page PDF of the 656 bill and nowhere does it state you can't permit less conceal carry in a municipal that has an ordinance against open carry. The only thing that is different is that with permit less carry if you go into one of the 17 places that firearms are off limits in then you are committing a crime and can be arrested versus if you have a ccw permit it's only a citation. Besdies that could be considered unconstitutional if residents of certain locations in the state not allowed to permit less carry and some are.

The law is quite confusing because it covers so many different things including 10-20 and 50 year ccw permits and of course improved Castle/Stand Your Ground. I studied it for an hour yesterday.

Hopefully you get Peter Kinder up there elected. Even if you lose the super majorities but get Kinder elected things will be so so much easier to get passed with him. I'm sure campus carry would easily pass with Kinder next year as well and permit less carry tweaked as well. John Brunner or Hathaway too would be pro gun, but Kinder would be the most supportive.

did you listen to the floor debates on Friday? In the house it was comical hearing Stacey Newman and Tracey McCreery have mental breakdowns on the floor and get into tears. Newman got called out by one of the rural Missouri reps mentioned about how she commented about living in a gated community and not needing to own firearms and then he blasted her for being a 1 percenter and how he was one of the other 99 percent and can't afford to live in a secured community. Newman gets flustered when under pressure. That woman is nuts. McCreery had to be comforted at the end of the session she was so upset.

I loved seeing the antis get smacked down this time. You hear how mad they were in the house and senate knowing they couldn't be stopped. 656 almost got gutted last week but was saved at the last minute from what I'm hearing.

[Keith B]

I think Nixon will do a partial veto of the bill. I really believe the bill passed for permitless carry because it was combined with the Castle Doctrine, enhancement. The House Bill companion HB 1468 had Employee Parking Lot and Nolo Contendere enhancements and it passed as well. I don't think they would have passed if it had been by itself on a bill. My thought is Nixon will send it/them back and ask that permitless carry portion be removed. I may be incorrect, but that's my thoughts.

Interestingly, while the bills allows concealed carry without a permit, there are some real major penalty differences if you do or don't have a permit. Without a permit, if you carry into a prohibited location, you can be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony, depending on the location. If you have a permit, then carrying into a prohibited location carries no criminal penalties at all, unless you refuse to leave, then you can be issued a ticket for $100 for the first offense.

[Keith B]

did you listen to the floor debates on Friday? In the house it was comical hearing Stacey Newman and Tracey McCreery have mental breakdowns on the floor and get into tears. Newman got called out by one of the rural Missouri reps mentioned about how she commented about living in a gated community and not needing to own firearms and then he blasted her for being a 1 percenter and how he was one of the other 99 percent and can't afford to live in a secured community. Newman gets flustered when under pressure. That woman is nuts. McCreery had to be comforted at the end of the session she was so upset.

I would love to have heard that

McCreery and Newman are reps from the prominent areas of St. Louis (Ladue, Clayton and Creve Coeur). Average house price in Newman's district is about $720K, and in McCreery's district is about $600K. They are elitists and in the upper-crust and worthless as Reps IMO. In comparison the Speaker of the House is a friend of mine from my home town. Median home price in his town is $87K in the main town, with much lower median price across the district.

[Keith B]

I need to move to Missouri, then.

Hopefully not into Newman or McCreery's districts. LOL

[DocV]

I need to move to Missouri, then.

Hopefully not into Newman or McCreery's districts. LOL

You got something against folks from the big city?
Saying this as a kid from the Farmington / Park Hills area

[ELB]

I think Nixon will do a partial veto of the bill. ... I don't think they would have passed if it had been by itself on a bill. .

Is that possible in Missouri? To my knowledge, most (all?) places the governor gets to sign, veto, or allow silently to pass, and if it hits his desk he has to do one of the three for the whole bill. Combining stuff he likes with stuff he doesn't like is traditionally one of the powers/strategies of a legislature, and "line-item" vetoes have not faired well in legislatures or courts. Is Missouri different in that regard?

Interestingly, while the bills allows concealed carry without a permit, there are some real major penalty differences if you do or don't have a permit. Without a permit, if you carry into a prohibited location, you can be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony, depending on the location. If you have a permit, then carrying into a prohibited location carries no criminal penalties at all, unless you refuse to leave, then you can be issued a ticket for $100 for the first offense.

There's also the legal problem of the Gun-Free School Zones Act. The only exception for carrying a loaded handgun in the 1000' zone around a school is a license or permit issued by the state. If you map out all the school zones, this limits state-level "constitutional carry", especially in cities and suburbs. As a practical point, of course people are seldom prosecuted for this by the feds unless they have brought attention to themselves otherwise, but as a legal matter it greatly restricts constitutional carry areas.

[Keith B]

I think Nixon will do a partial veto of the bill. ... I don't think they would have passed if it had been by itself on a bill. .

Is that possible in Missouri? To my knowledge, most (all?) places the governor gets to sign, veto, or allow silently to pass, and if it hits his desk he has to do one of the three for the whole bill. Combining stuff he likes with stuff he doesn't like is traditionally one of the powers/strategies of a legislature, and "line-item" vetoes have not faired well in legislatures or courts. Is Missouri different in that regard?

Interestingly, while the bills allows concealed carry without a permit, there are some real major penalty differences if you do or don't have a permit. Without a permit, if you carry into a prohibited location, you can be guilty of a Class A misdemeanor or Class D felony, depending on the location. If you have a permit, then carrying into a prohibited location carries no criminal penalties at all, unless you refuse to leave, then you can be issued a ticket for $100 for the first offense.

There's also the legal problem of the Gun-Free School Zones Act. The only exception for carrying a loaded handgun in the 1000' zone around a school is a license or permit issued by the state. If you map out all the school zones, this limits state-level "constitutional carry", especially in cities and suburbs. As a practical point, of course people are seldom prosecuted for this by the feds unless they have brought attention to themselves otherwise, but as a legal matter it greatly restricts constitutional carry areas.

Got to reading and the partial veto only applies to appropriation bills. So, he would have to veto and request the portion be removed before they override the veto. Not sure the legislation would remove the section though since they passed the completed bill.

And, for the school, yeah, if you have a permit in Missouri, if you accidentally carry into a school, then no penalty. Carry into one with no permit and it is a Class D felony and possible GFSZ charge as well.

[Keith B]

I need to move to Missouri, then.

Hopefully not into Newman or McCreery's districts. LOL

You got something against folks from the big city?
Saying this as a kid from the Farmington / Park Hills area

Just folks from the big city that think us who grew up in the rural area are below them. And you're a Yankee. I grew up in Poplar Bluff.

[C-dub]

As the number of states with Constitutional Carry slowly increases, maybe it's time to go after that GFSZ thing.