30.06 and Local Governments In Revolt

[mojo84]

Just a reminder it's not just dems.

[KLB]

As with other levels of government, those in control of local governments are, for the most part, members of the clerisy, a self-selected elite who see their role as ruling the rest of us for our own good. For such people, law is a tool to keep us in line. That they too should be bound by it is something they'll ignore as much as possible. This routinely manifests itself in small and large ways in the operation of local governments.

Unless the legislature gives aggrieved license holders a private cause of action (say, a $1,000 fine and reasonable court costs and attorneys fees), local governments will indefinitely obstruct application of handgun laws to themselves. I seriously doubt the legislature would create such a cause of action, and if it did, local officials would still drag things out for a long time.

[VoiceofReason]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

I am sure it could be tailored to make it fair. Fine whoever signs it in to law, and or whoever submitted it.

Something needs to be done to clearly demonstrate that government officials are not above the law.

[XinTX]

I am sure it could be tailored to make it fair. Fine whoever signs it in to law, and or whoever submitted it.

Something needs to be done to clearly demonstrate that government officials are not above the law.

You or I break the law, we would pay a penalty or go to jail. But somehow when gub-mint officials do so, they get a pass. I guess some pigs are more equal than others.

[C-dub]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

Hopefully, votes are recorded and it would be easy to determine which way each council member votes and assess penalties accordingly.

[Soccerdad1995]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

Hopefully, votes are recorded and it would be easy to determine which way each council member votes and assess penalties accordingly.

If I am a member of a group that commits a crime, and I know about the crime, and I choose to remain a member and not report the crime, then I am guilty, even if I personally thought the crime was a bad idea. Give City council members immunity from criminal liability if they vote against the illegal act, immediately notify the AG, and agree to testify against the leaders of the illegal plot.

Those shown to be responsible should be permanently disqualified from holding public office. I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us.

[VoiceofReason]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

Hopefully, votes are recorded and it would be easy to determine which way each council member votes and assess penalties accordingly.

If I am a member of a group that commits a crime, and I know about the crime, and I choose to remain a member and not report the crime, then I am guilty, even if I personally thought the crime was a bad idea. Give City council members immunity from criminal liability if they vote against the illegal act, immediately notify the AG, and agree to testify against the leaders of the illegal plot.

Those shown to be responsible should be permanently disqualified from holding public office. I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us.

This "I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us."

[TexasJohnBoy]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

Hopefully, votes are recorded and it would be easy to determine which way each council member votes and assess penalties accordingly.

If I am a member of a group that commits a crime, and I know about the crime, and I choose to remain a member and not report the crime, then I am guilty, even if I personally thought the crime was a bad idea. Give City council members immunity from criminal liability if they vote against the illegal act, immediately notify the AG, and agree to testify against the leaders of the illegal plot.

Those shown to be responsible should be permanently disqualified from holding public office. I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us.

This "I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us."

*Justice Involved Individuals.

[Soccerdad1995]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

Hopefully, votes are recorded and it would be easy to determine which way each council member votes and assess penalties accordingly.

If I am a member of a group that commits a crime, and I know about the crime, and I choose to remain a member and not report the crime, then I am guilty, even if I personally thought the crime was a bad idea. Give City council members immunity from criminal liability if they vote against the illegal act, immediately notify the AG, and agree to testify against the leaders of the illegal plot.

Those shown to be responsible should be permanently disqualified from holding public office. I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us.

This "I'm tired of criminals governing the rest of us."

*Justice Involved Individuals.

I think they need to be at risk of prosecution to get the fancy new title. Those who are above the law are still plain old "criminals".

[ScottDLS]

Technically not criminals, as posting the signs is not a crime. It's a civil violation for which the offending agency/government entity can be fined. If followed to its conclusion by the AG, he could get a court order/writ to order the government officials to take down the sign. If they subsequently refused, then they may be able to be prosecuted for criminal contempt of court.

[AJSully421]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

I am not picking on you here, just using this as an example:

It is not so much a matter of who votes how; we need some Paul Reveres in these elected offices at every level. It's not that hard, stand up and say "Cut the crap!". Instead of some elected official saying how they should not be held responsible for the actions of others, how about you TAKE responsibility for the illegal actions of those other members who are acting as mini tyrants?

If a sign is put up illegally, YOU go rip it down, or you get the crud fined out of you. They put letters on the glass, YOU go get a razor blade. They bolt metal signs to the brick work out in front of city hall, YOU bust out a socket wrench. They put a 30.06 up on an easel in the hallway, YOU go toss that sonofagun in the dumpster out back.

I swear, when the AG gets off their duff and finds the City of Benbrook to be in violation on their signs, I will go in there and take down the signs myself. Worst they can do is Class C Criminal Mischief for removing a sign that is less than $100 in value. Come and get me.

[Lynyrd]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

I am not picking on you here, just using this as an example:

It is not so much a matter of who votes how; we need some Paul Reveres in these elected offices at every level. It's not that hard, stand up and say "Cut the crap!". Instead of some elected official saying how they should not be held responsible for the actions of others, how about you TAKE responsibility for the illegal actions of those other members who are acting as mini tyrants?

If a sign is put up illegally, YOU go rip it down, or you get the crud fined out of you. They put letters on the glass, YOU go get a razor blade. They bolt metal signs to the brick work out in front of city hall, YOU bust out a socket wrench. They put a 30.06 up on an easel in the hallway, YOU go toss that sonofagun in the dumpster out back.

I swear, when the AG gets off their duff and finds the City of Benbrook to be in violation on their signs, I will go in there and take down the signs myself. Worst they can do is Class C Criminal Mischief for removing a sign that is less than $100 in value. Come and get me.

Let's say a person wants to run for city council, county commissioner, school board, etc., etc., because they don't like what that body is doing and they want to change things. This person gets elected and now has a vote when decisions are made, but they are just one vote. If the elected body still makes the wrong decision, do you lump the one good guy in with the rest and tar and feather him too? Or do you get a little backbone and run for another seat on that body so that you can add to his vote?

Our town is small. Council members are not paid one red cent. We donate our time to help the community. I am on the council (which is basically volunteer community service) just so that I can try and help steer things in the right direction. Many of you here have attacked me for my earlier comments about being held responsible for the votes of others. I do not understand. If I am trying to do the right thing, but get outvoted because more liberals have been willing to make the sacrifice to have a voice than have my fellow conservatives, why in the heck would I be the bad guy?

You can sit at home and fling flaming arrows, or you can step outside of you daily zone and try to make a difference. I'm not mad at anyone here, and I'm not saying your anger is unjustified. But if you attack people that are trying to make things right, some of those people will just leave those public bodies and go back to being on the sideline because they just don't want the conflict. Then what do you have left?

[Vol Texan]

This. Any political subdivision who is found to be in violation will have each of its principal employees (the mayor and city council, city managers, county commissioners, library board members... any and all of them) shall be fined $10,000 each.

Easy now. I'm a city council member, and I should not be held responsible for the votes of others on the council.



And for the record, we don't have any signs.

I am not picking on you here, just using this as an example:

It is not so much a matter of who votes how; we need some Paul Reveres in these elected offices at every level. It's not that hard, stand up and say "Cut the crap!". Instead of some elected official saying how they should not be held responsible for the actions of others, how about you TAKE responsibility for the illegal actions of those other members who are acting as mini tyrants?

If a sign is put up illegally, YOU go rip it down, or you get the crud fined out of you. They put letters on the glass, YOU go get a razor blade. They bolt metal signs to the brick work out in front of city hall, YOU bust out a socket wrench. They put a 30.06 up on an easel in the hallway, YOU go toss that sonofagun in the dumpster out back.

I swear, when the AG gets off their duff and finds the City of Benbrook to be in violation on their signs, I will go in there and take down the signs myself. Worst they can do is Class C Criminal Mischief for removing a sign that is less than $100 in value. Come and get me.

Let's say a person wants to run for city council, county commissioner, school board, etc., etc., because they don't like what that body is doing and they want to change things. This person gets elected and now has a vote when decisions are made, but they are just one vote. If the elected body still makes the wrong decision, do you lump the one good guy in with the rest and tar and feather him too? Or do you get a little backbone and run for another seat on that body so that you can add to his vote?

Our town is small. Council members are not paid one red cent. We donate our time to help the community. I am on the council (which is basically volunteer community service) just so that I can try and help steer things in the right direction. Many of you here have attacked me for my earlier comments about being held responsible for the votes of others. I do not understand. If I am trying to do the right thing, but get outvoted because more liberals have been willing to make the sacrifice to have a voice than have my fellow conservatives, why in the heck would I be the bad guy?

You can sit at home and fling flaming arrows, or you can step outside of you daily zone and try to make a difference. I'm not mad at anyone here, and I'm not saying your anger is unjustified. But if you attack people that are trying to make things right, some of those people will just leave those public bodies and go back to being on the sideline because they just don't want the conflict. Then what do you have left?

You make a very good point. However, if such a law as the one in Florida came to be here in Texas (how great that would be!), then it could be worded that it only implicates the individual or individuals who are responsible. I'd hope that's how it would be done here in Texas.

"The 2014 Florida Statutes 790.33 (3)PROHIBITIONS; PENALTIES.—
(c) If the court determines that a violation was knowing and willful, the court shall assess a civil fine of up to $5,000 against the elected or appointed local government official or officials or administrative agency head under whose jurisdiction the violation occurred.
(d) Except as required by applicable law, public funds may not be used to defend or reimburse the unlawful conduct of any person found to have knowingly and willfully violated this section."

So, if your council voted to put up the unenforceable signs, and if you were the one guy who voted against it, then that should be public record. You wouldn't (and shouldn't) face any liability at all.

[mojo84]

Let's say a person wants to run for city council, county commissioner, school board, etc., etc., because they don't like what that body is doing and they want to change things. This person gets elected and now has a vote when decisions are made, but they are just one vote. If the elected body still makes the wrong decision, do you lump the one good guy in with the rest and tar and feather him too? Or do you get a little backbone and run for another seat on that body so that you can add to his vote?

It is not my intent to derail or hijack this thread. I am just wanting to acknowledge what I believe is a very insightful thought and give an example of how this very thing happened nationally.

I believe Cruz was seen as an insider just because he was a senator. Even though he had stood for solid conservative principle and the Constitution to the point he was probably the most hated individual by his congressional colleagues. He was in essence treated just as Lynyrd mentioned above instead of other like minded people rallying behind him and joining in the fight. Justifiable deep seeded anger overruled reason and logic.

I too have succumbed to my anger at times and have fallen for the "they are all bums and throw all the bums out" mindset. This is a dangerous mindset as it will continue to set us back. This attitude negates any progress we make by getting good people with right motives elected. Instead of throwing out the good guys with the bad, let's work on adding more good guys and gals.

As long as we continue to punish the good guys that get elected, few good guys will run for office. Let's punish the bad guys and support the good guys. This is how we will Make America Great Again!


Edited for grammar and coherence.