Does the Bible Enshrine a ‘God-Given Right’ to Shoot in Self Defense?

[Pawpaw]

I've never seen anything within the new testament which prohibits the moral use of force, it does say "thou shalt not murder" which is the wrongful taking of an innocent life. It does not actually say "thou shalt not kill" the hebrew writing says murder. As for being persecuted for being a christian to the point of myrterdom, I am no scholar on the subject but I've always thought the idea simply means refusing to reject one's faith in Christ regardless of the circumstances. And that includes using force if need be to defend oneself up to and including death if need be in the face of refusing to reject or disavow one's faith. The idea of the christians passively allowing themselves to be fed to the lions never seemed to make sense, grab a sword or a spear and defend one's faith and by extension one's self. You may still die but you are dying because of your refusal to reject your faith regardless of the fact you are still defending yourself.
Jesus himself was not above the use of force, in this case brute force. He did not ask the moneychangers in the temple to please leave. He got ahold of a whip and beat them until they left.

Except it has been explained to me that the original language does not directly translate to any English word. The closest phrase is, "Thou shalt not kill with evil intent."

[SewTexas]

I've never seen anything within the new testament which prohibits the moral use of force, it does say "thou shalt not murder" which is the wrongful taking of an innocent life. It does not actually say "thou shalt not kill" the hebrew writing says murder. As for being persecuted for being a christian to the point of myrterdom, I am no scholar on the subject but I've always thought the idea simply means refusing to reject one's faith in Christ regardless of the circumstances. And that includes using force if need be to defend oneself up to and including death if need be in the face of refusing to reject or disavow one's faith. The idea of the christians passively allowing themselves to be fed to the lions never seemed to make sense, grab a sword or a spear and defend one's faith and by extension one's self. You may still die but you are dying because of your refusal to reject your faith regardless of the fact you are still defending yourself.
Jesus himself was not above the use of force, in this case brute force. He did not ask the moneychangers in the temple to please leave. He got ahold of a whip and beat them until they left.

Except it has been explained to me that the original language does not directly translate to any English word. The closest phrase is, "Thou shalt not kill with evil intent."

exactly!

[Bitter Clinger]

I've never seen anything within the new testament which prohibits the moral use of force, it does say "thou shalt not murder" which is the wrongful taking of an innocent life. It does not actually say "thou shalt not kill" the hebrew writing says murder. As for being persecuted for being a christian to the point of myrterdom, I am no scholar on the subject but I've always thought the idea simply means refusing to reject one's faith in Christ regardless of the circumstances. And that includes using force if need be to defend oneself up to and including death if need be in the face of refusing to reject or disavow one's faith. The idea of the christians passively allowing themselves to be fed to the lions never seemed to make sense, grab a sword or a spear and defend one's faith and by extension one's self. You may still die but you are dying because of your refusal to reject your faith regardless of the fact you are still defending yourself.
Jesus himself was not above the use of force, in this case brute force. He did not ask the moneychangers in the temple to please leave. He got ahold of a whip and beat them until they left.

Except it has been explained to me that the original language does not directly translate to any English word. The closest phrase is, "Thou shalt not kill with evil intent."

The words in Hebrew for "kill" or "murder" are as separate and distinct as they are in English. The Commandment translates exactly to "Thou shall not murder" (in Hebrew; "Lo Tirzach").

The most important distinction between a killing and murder is that of motivation and intent as you correctly point out.

[Oldgringo]

{snip}

You, who are afraid of guns, depend on people who aren't.

Did I mention that Mrs. Oldgringo and I watched the 1967 movie, "HOMBRE", the other night?

[WildBill]

{snip}

You, who are afraid of guns, depend on people who aren't.

Did I mention that Mrs. Oldgringo and I watched the 1967 movie, "HOMBRE", the other night?

I think I saw that. Is that the new movie with Leonardo DiCaprio?

[karder]

The Bible teaches that we are our brother's keeper. The way I see it, healthy, strong, able-bodied folks have a duty to protect those around them. If I see a weaker person being victimized and do nothing, whether it is because I choose to do nothing or chose not to arm myself, would God not judge me? If someone strikes me and I choose not to retaliate, that is one thing. If I watch someone weaker, who can't defend themselves being struck and choose not to do anything, that is another matter. I would go so far as to say, as Christians, we have a duty to arm ourselves. Others may disagree.

[WildBill]

Exodus 22 offers the case of self-defense by a homeowner against an intruding burglar. The Torah makes a clear distinction between a nighttime and daytime robbery – as does Texas law!

This passage from Exodus introduces the classic principle of self-defense, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." If there is homicidal intent, self-defense is more than permitted; it is required. This is a common principle of all legal systems, America's included and Texas especially!

Can you provide a link to these references?

[troglodyte]

This site reflects my person thinking on killing in self defense. I think i'd have to answer for spilling blood, and I hope i have a satisfactory answer when it counts.

http://www.biblicalselfdefense.com/

Very good article. Concise yet loaded with lots to think about. Duly bookmarked.

[TangoX-ray]

Exodus 22 offers the case of self-defense by a homeowner against an intruding burglar. The Torah makes a clear distinction between a nighttime and daytime robbery – as does Texas law!

This passage from Exodus introduces the classic principle of self-defense, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." If there is homicidal intent, self-defense is more than permitted; it is required. This is a common principle of all legal systems, America's included and Texas especially!

Can you provide a link to these references?

If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

[Bitter Clinger]

Exodus 22 offers the case of self-defense by a homeowner against an intruding burglar. The Torah makes a clear distinction between a nighttime and daytime robbery – as does Texas law!

This passage from Exodus introduces the classic principle of self-defense, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." If there is homicidal intent, self-defense is more than permitted; it is required. This is a common principle of all legal systems, America's included and Texas especially!

Can you provide a link to these references?

No shortage of stuff out there - here are a few to get you started:

Exodus Chapter 22 שְׁמוֹת
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0222.htm
http://biblehub.com/commentaries/exodus/22-2.htm
http://www.ajc.org/site/apps/nlnet/cont ... t=12482997

[troglodyte]

Exodus 22 offers the case of self-defense by a homeowner against an intruding burglar. The Torah makes a clear distinction between a nighttime and daytime robbery – as does Texas law!

This passage from Exodus introduces the classic principle of self-defense, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." If there is homicidal intent, self-defense is more than permitted; it is required. This is a common principle of all legal systems, America's included and Texas especially!

Can you provide a link to these references?

While I can certainly see some comparisons in Exodus I do not see the introduction of the principle, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." I'm not arguing self-defense, I am cautious against making "Biblical" statements not found in the Bible.

I too would like to see more definitive citation.

[WildBill]

Exodus 22 offers the case of self-defense by a homeowner against an intruding burglar. The Torah makes a clear distinction between a nighttime and daytime robbery – as does Texas law!

This passage from Exodus introduces the classic principle of self-defense, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." If there is homicidal intent, self-defense is more than permitted; it is required. This is a common principle of all legal systems, America's included and Texas especially!

Can you provide a link to these references?

If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Thank you sir. It is in my Bible as well.

[jmorris]

Exodus 22 offers the case of self-defense by a homeowner against an intruding burglar. The Torah makes a clear distinction between a nighttime and daytime robbery – as does Texas law!

This passage from Exodus introduces the classic principle of self-defense, "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)." If there is homicidal intent, self-defense is more than permitted; it is required. This is a common principle of all legal systems, America's included and Texas especially!

Can you provide a link to these references?

If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed;

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?s ... ersion=NIV

Thank you sir. It is in my Bible as well.

Ah, I see my problem. Exodus 22:2 was easy but I at first thought that he was saying "If someone comes to kill you, rise up and kill him (first)" was also a passage but he's saying Exodus 22:2 *supports* that concept.

At least, I think that's idea.