No guns allowed at South Texas State Fair

[dhoobler]

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/31552552 ... state-fair

Organizers will not be allowing those carrying firearms into the park because there’s a temporary liquor license for the event. Law states if 51 percent of gross sales comes from alcohol, it’s illegal to have guns in the area. Fair officials say this rule applies to the festivities because there are some vendors that will make a majority of their sales from liquor.

[C-dub]

Lewisville used this excuse for an event last year. I don't know if it is legitimate and enforceable or not. It's kind of odd, though, that they are going with serving alcohol and allowing people to be drinking and everything that comes with that instead of allowing a group of people that are more law abiding than even the police too carry their concealed handguns.

[dhoobler]

This begs a question. Does a 51 percent vendor anywhere on the grounds render the entire area off limits by statute? I also wonder if there will be 06/07 signs posted, which have nothing to do with the sale of alcohol.

[Mel]

Lewisville used this excuse for an event last year. I don't know if it is legitimate and enforceable or not. It's kind of odd, though, that they are going with serving alcohol and allowing people to be drinking and everything that comes with that instead of allowing a group of people that are more law abiding than even the police too carry their concealed handguns.

Because allowing CHL/LTC folks in does not bring in anywhere near the revenue that serving alcohol does!

[howdy]

Again, this is an example of knowing just a little bit of the law and using that information to your advantage...

Section 46.035 states:
"(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under
Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business
derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic
beverages for on-premises consumption

"(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building.

This article said "sales" not income. It also appears to be in a park and not in a building. Oh well, another example of government being the masters over the people.

[puma guy]

Again, this is an example of knowing just a little bit of the law and using that information to your advantage...

Section 46.035 states:
"(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under
Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business
derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic
beverages for on-premises consumption

"(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building.

This article said "sales" not income. It also appears to be in a park and not in a building. Oh well, another example of government being the masters over the people.

I'm scratching my head on this one. How is a liquor license issued to someone without a physical address or location. Do they get one for the fairgrounds? Can a licensee get a liquor license that's temporary or movable? If so what about venues that hire vendors for cash bars or say one at a wedding? Are we precluded from carrying since obviously their sales are more than 51%.

[Jusme]

Again, this is an example of knowing just a little bit of the law and using that information to your advantage...

Section 46.035 states:
"(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under
Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business
derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic
beverages for on-premises consumption

"(3) “Premises” means a building or a portion of a building.

This article said "sales" not income. It also appears to be in a park and not in a building. Oh well, another example of government being the masters over the people.

I'm scratching my head on this one. How is a liquor license issued to someone without a physical address or location. Do they get one for the fairgrounds? Can a licensee get a liquor license that's temporary or movable? If so what about venues that hire vendors for cash bars or say one at a wedding? Are we precluded from carrying since obviously their sales are more than 51%.

This is just another attempt to circumvent the law, by claiming that if alcohol is served or consumed, then they can ban firearms. I am not familiar with this fair, but a permit can be issued temporarily just like the State Fair or festivals where they close off streets etc.. However, the entire permitted premise is not 51% posted because the overall sales of the event are not from alcohol. If you have to purchase a ticket to enter, then those sales figures must be included. If food is sold, same thing. The individual vendors may have 51% or more of their sales from alcohol, but that is only at that booth/kiosk etc. Not the entire site.

The report is erroneous, because simply having alcohol for sale does not prevent the licensed carry of handguns. The TABC is the only entity that can cause an area to be posted 51%.

[Scott in Houston]

This is very similar to the Houston Rodeo which has a 12 page thread on this forum.

As many people as possible need to report this to the AG. The AG won't do anything because he appears to be virtually worthless at enforcing this so far, but the more complaints made, the better chance that
1). the AG will finally act
2). the legislature may act to stop this stuff.

[NotRPB]

The report is erroneous, because simply having alcohol for sale does not prevent the licensed carry of handguns.

Yeah the feel good "gunfree zone" quote was funny
If one only considers 46.035 ...

1)
46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER (So, loaded rifles, concealed or open carried, could be carried, no license required)

2)
Looks like as shown in most posts above. it appears that licensees can in fact carry there outside the "building or portion of a building" which derives
"51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption"...
(This applies to >>> LICENSEES, and >> to Licensees with a HANDGUN)

Amusing that people think a 30.06/30.07/51% sign creates a "GunFree Zone" .... it's as amusing as ... like thinking posting a "No Police may bring guns in here" sign would create a "GunFree Zone"

[Keith B]

46.035 says

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

TABC defines premises as the area listed on the license for consumption, so their 'premises' could be the whole fair. 46.035 says 'building or portion of building'. So, there is a major conflict on the 'premises' definition. Because there is no case law on this, you may beat the rap, but not the ride and cab fare in this one.

Best bet is if it's government owned, to try and report it to the AG and get an opinion from them.

[Jim Beaux]

The fair is being held at Ford Park, a county owned facility. I believe that either the article has been edited to reflect anti 2a by omitting the pertinent law or the "gun expert" is not an expert & didnt cite the law.

But gun expert Stephen “doc” Watson disagrees with the idea because licensed gun carriers have to go through multiple gun checks in order to legally carry.

“The fact of the matter is that a person in the state of Texas who has a license to carry has been vetted with the FBI,” Watson said. “Two background checks. Fingerprints and has been vetted and are far safer than the people working the fair. We don't know who they are.”

Doc hopes an exception is made in the future for such a popular event like the South Texas State Fair.

http://www.12newsnow.com/story/31552552 ... state-fair

If I decide to visit the fair, I will be lawfully carrying.

[locke_n_load]

Or we remove the whole 51% law from Texas Code and public property can stop using this as an anti-gun shield.

[Jusme]

But unless this is designated a 51% permit by the TABC they have no legal means to prohibit LTC holders from bringing their handguns. The article did not state whether they have posted any signs only that their is a liquor permit (which I also doubt because permits are not listed in that manner.) If the permit holders are also obtaining profits from rides, food, ticket sales etc.. it is unlikely that they are grossing 51% from alcohol sales.

I don't live in the area, so I don't know about ownership of the property, but if they aren't posting it 30.06, 30.07 or 51% there should be no legal means to prohibit LTC holders from carrying. If it is owned by a municipality, then they should be held accountable for illegally posting.

[The Wall]

So I guess if there's a Bar next to a grocery store you can't carry in the grocery store according to this logic. Should be you can't purchase from the vendor selling beer that makes 51% through liquor sales. Like mentioned this is just a way for them to abuse the law.

[locke_n_load]

I believe it has to do with the address, that's why the grocery store next to a bar analogy does not work.

Fair address - 123 fake street
vendor with 51% liquor license address - 123 fake street

123 fake street is posted 51%. doesn't matter how small the vendor is inside the place.

I don't agree with it, but that's how I read it.
Hence why we need to remove alcohol sales from anywhere in the code for firearms. No blue or red signs. Problem solved.