Hobby Airport Road Checkpoint

Most CHL/LEO contacts are positive, how about yours? Bloopers are fun, but no names please, if it will cause a LEO problems!

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stevie_d_64
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#31

Post by stevie_d_64 »

Liberty wrote:
stevie_d_64 wrote:
iflyabeech wrote:How do you propose we stop them?
Well that is a loaded question, pull up a chair...

It would involve obtaining launch codes and authorization, and me winning the 2008 Presidential election...
Ya, got my vote!
That's two...I knew you'd be a Stevie-Dee'r! :lol: Who's keeping count???

BTW, I bet you guys know what my first Executive Order would be???
"Perseverance and Preparedness triumph over Procrastination and Paranoia every time.” -- Steve
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Liberty
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#32

Post by Liberty »

stevie_d_64 wrote:
Liberty wrote:
stevie_d_64 wrote:
iflyabeech wrote:How do you propose we stop them?
Well that is a loaded question, pull up a chair...

It would involve obtaining launch codes and authorization, and me winning the 2008 Presidential election...
Ya, got my vote!
That's two...I knew you'd be a Stevie-Dee'r! :lol: Who's keeping count???

BTW, I bet you guys know what my first Executive Order would be???
Maybe, But I was hopin' you would put me in charge of the ATFE, Boy would I have fun!!
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"Today, we need a nation of Minutemen, citizens who are not only prepared to take arms, but citizens who regard the preservation of freedom as the basic purpose of their daily life and who are willing to consciously work and sacrifice for that freedom." John F. Kennedy

srothstein
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#33

Post by srothstein »

iflyabeech wrote:
srothstein wrote:
Yes, they are looking for you and your guns. After all, there is no defintion of what is a terrorist and there have been some pretty weak claims made for it so far.
no, they aren't looking for us.
Then why can you not carry your weapon on a plane? And why must you jump through special hoops to even carry it in checked baggage where it cannot be accessed and cannot possibly harm anyone? And why can you not even agree to go through a search and be checked and then walk with your guest down to the actual gate to wait with them until takeoff?

Answer: They are looking to control you and prepare you for more actions. It clearly is not anti-terrorism or anyone could go through the safety search and go down to the gate.

Or to put it another way: they are not looking for you and your guns YET.

So far, the problem I have seen reported in not stopping the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks was that the various intelligence and investigative agencies did not talk to each other or even listen when their own employees raised suspicions. We could have had the information on them and stopped them IF we had wanted to, all while obeying the laws. Or, to give you another thought to think about, consider how quickly after the attacks we had identified which passengers it was that were the criminals, including releasing that information to the public. And we did it without having any evidence available from the scenes, which means we had to have known about it in advance or at least had the suspects identified in advance.

Just as with the 1993 bombings, I firmly believe that the government knew about it and decided we wanted a better case than just a conspiracy charge, and it backfired on them. This is not a criticism since it is a tactical and strategic question to be answered at the time and I wasn't there. I am just observing that the criminal justice system and intelligence system in place was working and could have stopped it IF they had made different decisions. And conspiracy charges would have worked to stop many of the cases that were posted as hypothetical what do we do cases.

As for the part about criminals or soldiers, they can be both. They do not meet the legal definition of soldiers under the Geneva and Hague conventions. This might make them the so called "unlawful enemy combatants" that the President likes to call them, but another word for unlawful is criminal. They are violating our criminal laws, and they are violating the agreed upon laws of war. In either case, they ARE criminals.
Steve Rothstein
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iflyabeech
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#34

Post by iflyabeech »

srothstein wrote:
Then why can you not carry your weapon on a plane? And why must you jump through special hoops to even carry it in checked baggage where it cannot be accessed and cannot possibly harm anyone? And why can you not even agree to go through a search and be checked and then walk with your guest down to the actual gate to wait with them until takeoff?

Answer: They are looking to control you and prepare you for more actions. It clearly is not anti-terrorism or anyone could go through the safety search and go down to the gate.
I can carry my gun on a plane. Just not an airliner unless its checked. Its never been a problem, I have carried it all over the country. No hoops, just declared it if on the airlines! If I was an airline pilot, I would be an FFDO.

We have no right to fly on a plane with guns. We have no right to smoke on a plane. Using your line of thinking, you should be able to visit a prison with a gun. Come on now. I have not seen any examples of what right, liberty, or freedom anyone has lost. Only hypothetical conspiracy theories. Lets deal in fact. . .What right, liberty, or freedom have you lost?

How long do you think airport lines would be if they still allowed non passengers into the secured area? Think they are bad now!

Your comments don't make any sense, but then again you one of those with whacked out conspiracy theories.

srothstein wrote: So far, the problem I have seen reported in not stopping the Sep. 11, 2001 attacks was that the various intelligence and investigative agencies did not talk to each other or even listen when their own employees raised suspicions. We could have had the information on them and stopped them IF we had wanted to, all while obeying the laws. Or, to give you another thought to think about, consider how quickly after the attacks we had identified which passengers it was that were the criminals, including releasing that information to the public. And we did it without having any evidence available from the scenes, which means we had to have known about it in advance or at least had the suspects identified in advance.

Just as with the 1993 bombings, I firmly believe that the government knew about it and decided we wanted a better case than just a conspiracy charge, and it backfired on them. This is not a criticism since it is a tactical and strategic question to be answered at the time and I wasn't there. I am just observing that the criminal justice system and intelligence system in place was working and could have stopped it IF they had made different decisions. And conspiracy charges would have worked to stop many of the cases that were posted as hypothetical what do we do cases.
I think I could pick those names out of a passenger list very quickly. They knew what seats some of them were in from the phone calls.

If you really believe that our government knew about 9/11, you need serious mental help. I don't mean to flame you, but that is the absolute nuttiest thing I have ever heard.

srothstein
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#35

Post by srothstein »

Iflyabeech,

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this. I fully realize I may be wrong on some of the information, and I don't feel this is the place to argue this.

So, let's chalk it up to free citizens who have different points of view and I am dropping it here.
Steve Rothstein

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#36

Post by Xander »

iflyabeech wrote:Boy....so how exactly do you fellas propose that we fight terrorism? Just let them drive into our airports with car bombs? Or let them plan terrorist acts on the phone with no way to listen in? come on now. . . This is not time for the hypothetical "big brother is watching!" They are not looking for you or me or our guns. . .
The first thing I propose is that you learn the difference between "security" and "security theater". Taking away penknives, water bottles, and searching cars is not security. The TSA's own security audits have shown repeatedly and consistently that they allow bombs (and simulated bombs) through airport security at an alarming rate.

-Xander

EDIT: Here's an excellent article explaining what, exactly, security theater is, and why the "enhancements" to airport security since 9/11 are nothing more. http://www.schneier.com/essay-095.html
Last edited by Xander on Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renegade

#37

Post by Renegade »

The terrorists plan to dismantle freedom and liberty in the US is well-ahead of plan. They have learned that Americans are more scared of the unknown than what can actually be accomplished.

They do not even have to attack anymore. Just a few words in an Internet Cafe can shutdown Lower Manhattan, or leave a notebook around for capture detailing a few attack scenarios, etc. You get the picture.

It used to be, "Give me liberty or give me death", now it is :Please take away as much liberty as you want, so I can think I am safe."

Xander
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#38

Post by Xander »

iflyabeech wrote: I have been inconvenienced by security measures since 9/11. I take this inconvenience knowing that my inconvenience is saving lives.
LOL! Can you show documentation of even *one* incident, where increased airport "security" since 9/11 can back up a reasonable claim that they "saved lives"? As much as they try to hype their "successes", even the feeble results that they *do* garner tend to be due to good 'ol fashioned police work catching wannabes before they even get to the airport.

On the other hand, they've proven rather spectacularly that they couldn't catch a bomb if their lives depended on it. http://www.9news.com/news/article.aspx?storyid=67166

Take Richard Reid. The man who was too stupid to figure out how to set off possibly The Most Basic Bomb Ever Devised was smart enough to sail through post-9/11 airport security with it.

Your perceived "safety" is nothing but a delusion.

-Xander
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iflyabeech
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#39

Post by iflyabeech »

Again, the unanswered question....show me one freedom, right or liberty that you or I have lost!

I can show you documentation that no aircraft have been blown up or flown into buildings since 9/11. Pretty good documentation buddy.

I believe that there is not enough security at airports--they need to keep what they are doing and do more! I don't agree one bit that we shouldn't screen passengers less. We should screen them more. You make zero sense.

Half of Americans are scared that we are causing global warming and are too stupid to study history, so so many of them being scared silly does not surprise me. Thats not going to make me let the terrorists hurt my family or friends.

Again, the unanswered question....show me one freedom, right or liberty that you or I have lost!
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