30.07 Language Discussion

[kg5ie]

I went a local eating establishment on Saturday (- Hudson Oaks). After taking a close look at the door when driving up and again as the wife approached, I walked on in. Upon entering we walked about two steps into the entry way. The restaurant opened to our right, to the left was seating for those waiting, but no one was so we were greeted by the hostess. We asked if we could sit in the bar and were told it was OK. We took a seat directly at the bar.

To the right of the bar, on the wall, actually in one of the booths for patron seating, I noticed a legitimate 30.07 sign. I pointed it out to the wife, quickly pulled up CHL-16 on the phone and asked her to read the wording. I asked: "Does that meet the intent of the wording 'at each entrance'"?

We agreed no, obviously not. On the way out...we both noticed another 30.07, on the wall, inside the entrance...behind the benches provided for waiting patrons. Since it was in a recessed area, and I never had a need to look left as we came in, I totally missed it.

Now for the question. Do you think that meets the intent of "at each entrance"? The statute does not say the sign has to be on the door.

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

[imkopaka]

No, but the law does say, "a conspicuous manner clearly visible to the public at each entrance to the property." In a recessed corner that is not in the path of a person entering does not meet that requirement IMO.

[thetexan]

...AND property is just that, property.

[pt145ss]

...AND property is just that, property.

If it is in its own parking lot... Would it have to be posted outside so it was visible from the driveway?

[longhorn86]

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

Just curious, were you OC'ing, it wasn't mentioned in your OP?

[kg5ie]

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

Just curious, were you OC'ing, it wasn't mentioned in your OP?

Not when I entered, but when I took my jacket off in the restaurant, yes.

[Jusme]

I agree with others, signs placed in recessed areas, not in a direct path to the seating area, and/or placed near the back, would not be considered conspicuous at the entrance, but, they could still have asked you to cover up or leave, but it seems like they intentionally put them where they did to appease anti gun folks. I went to Hofbrau in Ft. Worth last weekend, and there was no signage at the entrance, but posted at about knee level, to the left between the outside entrance and the entrance to the restaurant, were English and Spanish 30.07 signs, I almost didn't see them at all, but I was looking for them. I was CC at the time so it wasn't an issue, but they were, in my opinion, not conspicuous, and would have been easily missed if it had been crowded and others were standing in that area.

[lildave40]

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

Just curious, were you OC'ing, it wasn't mentioned in your OP?

Not when I entered, but when I took my jacket off in the restaurant, yes.

I am not judging by all means but asking for learning purposes only. If you saw the sign why did you stay? Or did you leave with out eating? If approached by the manager or leo what could have happened?

[Jusme]

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

Just curious, were you OC'ing, it wasn't mentioned in your OP?

Not when I entered, but when I took my jacket off in the restaurant, yes.

I am not judging by all means but asking for learning purposes only. If you saw the sign why did you stay? Or did you leave with out eating? If approached by the manager or leo what could have happened?

I doubt that they would have had a case for a trespass violation based on the location of the signage, the management could have asked the OP to cover up or leave, but since he was sitting at the bar, and no one seemed panicked by him OC, I would assume that it would have taken a complaint by another customer for either of those things to happen. But, I wasn't there so....

[parabelum]

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

Just curious, were you OC'ing, it wasn't mentioned in your OP?

Not when I entered, but when I took my jacket off in the restaurant, yes.

Did you sit at the bar while carrying, regardless if OC or CC, just curious?

[steveincowtown]

It would be great if folks would redact the names of places when they post stories like this, especially when it is not germane to the story. IMHO the antis often use this forum as a guide on who to call/harass next, and posting the name of the business sure helps them.

[oljames3]

Did you sit at the bar while carrying, regardless if OC or CC, just curious?

I don't sit at the bar, but it is not due to my firearm. I'm a friend of Bill's.

[parabelum]

Did you sit at the bar while carrying, regardless if OC or CC, just curious?

I don't sit at the bar, but it is not due to my firearm. I'm a friend of Bill's.

My wife and I went out few weeks ago to a nice establishment, no signs at all. Walked in and had to wait 25 minutes to get our table (that's with prior reservation).
Waitress told us that we could sit at the bar and wait, as they had couple of stools free there, rather then stand and wait.

We stood and waited though, since we both CC'ed and obviously the bar area is a no no.

[C-dub]

Did you sit at the bar while carrying, regardless if OC or CC, just curious?

I don't sit at the bar, but it is not due to my firearm. I'm a friend of Bill's.

My wife and I went out few weeks ago to a nice establishment, no signs at all. Walked in and had to wait 25 minutes to get our table (that's with prior reservation).
Waitress told us that we could sit at the bar and wait, as they had couple of stools free there, rather then stand and wait.

We stood and waited though, since we both CC'ed and obviously the bar area is a no no.

If the establishment is not a 51% location, it matters not where you sit, whether it be at the bar or a booth.

[RedRaiderCHL]

Unfortunately I did not photograph the one at the waiting area....I was anxious to get out unnoticed.

Just curious, were you OC'ing, it wasn't mentioned in your OP?

Not when I entered, but when I took my jacket off in the restaurant, yes.

I am not judging by all means but asking for learning purposes only. If you saw the sign why did you stay? Or did you leave with out eating? If approached by the manager or leo what could have happened?

You have to realize the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. While yes the signs were not obvious, could you have still been in trouble, yea. At the same time, if the manager approached you, the most he can do is ask you to leave, and call the police. If he asks you to leave you have no obligation to stay (even if he calls the police). If the police show up odds are they will speak with you and ask you to leave. if you do without trouble.. there are no issues. You could get arrested for a Class C misdemeanor if you leave when asked, but odds are not.. Now if you don't leave when asked to by LE or the staff then you could/would be hooked up for a Class A misdemeanor.

If you know the business doesn't want people OCing, CCing or both, then just play it safe and don't do so. Splitting hairs over sign verbage, placement, etc can still get you arrested and in court. You may beat the rat, but you wont beat the ride. just play it safe.