9mm subguns and the power of marketing

[psijac]

I have felt for a long time that the 300 Blackout round/platform was best for short range applications like home defense. Especailly considered it was developed as a replacement for the mp5. But I've notice a rise in the popularity of 9mm submachineguns. Its gotten to the point where I feel I should get one just because I don't have one. I blame clever marketing teams, colluding with youtube.

Like this

this

and this

also this


Do you think a Subgun in 9 is worth it? If so which one would you get?

[extremist]

I love my MP5 and MP5 SBR Clone, but I like the CZ Scorpion EVO better, and when I get it SBR'd it will be my go-to Pistol Caliber Carbine for USPSA.

It has better ergonomics, you can reload the magazine faster, and the magazines are MUCH cheaper.

Sight options are better and the trigger is easier to work on to make better.

James

[Bitter Clinger]

I SBR'd an 8" bbl MPX. Ran 600 rounds of 124 gr NATO thru it last weekend during a carbine training. Sighted it in @ 25 yds with a 1X red dot and effortlessly peppered steel @ 100+ yds.

Lightweight, easy to conceal / carry in a small sling bag, very smooth shooting and super maneuverable for CQB work.

I can definitely recommend. As much fun or more than my AR pistol.

[The Annoyed Man]

Lately, I'm more in the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 price range.

A 9mm sub gun sounds like fun, but ammo cost aside, why would it be any more effective than a .300 Blk for SD?

Yes, you can ping steel with a 9mm at 100 yards, but you can do that with a 1911 .45 too. But with a .300 Blk 220 grain subsonic load 10ft from the muzzle, you have velocity/energy of 1,061 fps/541 ft-lbs, and at 100 yards you still have 1,012 fps/500 ft-lbs. how much retained velocity/energy does a 9mm have at 100 yards, particularly if you were shooting suppressed subsonics? That's my thought anyway.

[Jago668]

While I said none. If I had to pick one, I'd go for the Kriss Vector only because I have a Glock 17 and they would take the same mags.

[Bitter Clinger]

Lately, I'm more in the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 price range.

A 9mm sub gun sounds like fun, but ammo cost aside, why would it be any more effective than a .300 Blk for SD?

Yes, you can ping steel with a 9mm at 100 yards, but you can do that with a 1911 .45 too. But with a .300 Blk 220 grain subsonic load 10ft from the muzzle, you have velocity/energy of 1,061 fps/541 ft-lbs, and at 100 yards you still have 1,012 fps/500 ft-lbs. how much retained velocity/energy does a 9mm have at 100 yards, particularly if you were shooting suppressed subsonics? That's my thought anyway.

Cause it's not just about momentum transfer at the point of impact. It's about the right tool for the application. No one will use a pistol caliber carbine for hog hunting or expect it to turn cover into concealment like a rifle round.

But if I am in a CQB situation, making a quick vehicle exit or clearing rooms under stress, I prefer the SBR to a full length bbl with a can hanging off it.

Now, yes, anyone can hit a full size steel target at 100 yards with a 9mm handgun, but if that target at distance is returning fire,I prefer the longer bbl, a shoulder mount, and a red dot. Fast and accurate target acquisition, especially if the enemy is under cover, is clearly less advantageous with just a pistol.

[Mick22]

I was highly interested in the MPX until I saw the price tag. Also, would rather spent that on a nice 1911.

The Scorpion is what I voted for and is a most likely future purchase from the list.

[madwildcat]

Now, yes, anyone can hit a full size steel target at 100 yards with a 9mm handgun

Lets be fair, there are many who couldn't do that (including me on some days)

If the MPX didn't cost so much, it would be my gun of choice, but at that price range, I might as well save and go with a subgun with a full "fun" option

[MechAg94]

A subgun is just an extra toy to me. If I can't get the SBR and full auto, I might as well use a round that is more powerful. However, they are fun. That said, I would prefer a full stock rather than the pistol versions even if that does make it longer/larger.

I agree the Keltec sub2000 needs to be in this mix if we are talking about normal semi-auto guns. If I could get the SBR/full auto versions, I might want to spend more money. I do have a Thureon defense rifle, but I never fired it enough to say much. Works well so far.

[Scott B.]

Price is what's doing it for me as the EVO is half the MPX, even though that MPX sure is slick. MPX with the rear charging handle is a little gassier than the EVO and I intend to run it suppressed.

Of note, CZ has two carbine options for the EVO out this year. One with a standard flash hider (CZ 08505), the other with a faux suppressor (CZ 08507) from Silencer Co and is supposedly ready to go for SBR conversion, no 992r kit required. I'm curious if the fake can is pinned or what?

Now, if you're on the fence, I can't help you. But, you should know that NRA Certified Instructors do qualify for both the Sig Sauer and the CZ First Responder discounts....

[maverick2076]

I've got a Kel-Tec Sub2K that my wife loves, and I am building a 4" barrel 9mm AR that will take Glock mags and be suppressed to fill my need for a 9mm subgun and good HD gun.

[The Annoyed Man]

Lately, I'm more in the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 price range.

A 9mm sub gun sounds like fun, but ammo cost aside, why would it be any more effective than a .300 Blk for SD?

Yes, you can ping steel with a 9mm at 100 yards, but you can do that with a 1911 .45 too. But with a .300 Blk 220 grain subsonic load 10ft from the muzzle, you have velocity/energy of 1,061 fps/541 ft-lbs, and at 100 yards you still have 1,012 fps/500 ft-lbs. how much retained velocity/energy does a 9mm have at 100 yards, particularly if you were shooting suppressed subsonics? That's my thought anyway.

Cause it's not just about momentum transfer at the point of impact. It's about the right tool for the application. No one will use a pistol caliber carbine for hog hunting or expect it to turn cover into concealment like a rifle round.

But if I am in a CQB situation, making a quick vehicle exit or clearing rooms under stress, I prefer the SBR to a full length bbl with a can hanging off it.

Now, yes, anyone can hit a full size steel target at 100 yards with a 9mm handgun, but if that target at distance is returning fire,I prefer the longer bbl, a shoulder mount, and a red dot. Fast and accurate target acquisition, especially if the enemy is under cover, is clearly less advantageous with just a pistol.

For the record, in my particular case, I am building a 10.5" SBR in .300 Blk, primarily for CQB, and that is where I was coming from.

Carry on......

[rentz]

I don't need one but I kinda want a scorpion
On the cheaper side I'd grab the keltec but they aren't plentiful for good prices

[Bitter Clinger]

Lately, I'm more in the Kel-Tec Sub-2000 price range.

A 9mm sub gun sounds like fun, but ammo cost aside, why would it be any more effective than a .300 Blk for SD?

Yes, you can ping steel with a 9mm at 100 yards, but you can do that with a 1911 .45 too. But with a .300 Blk 220 grain subsonic load 10ft from the muzzle, you have velocity/energy of 1,061 fps/541 ft-lbs, and at 100 yards you still have 1,012 fps/500 ft-lbs. how much retained velocity/energy does a 9mm have at 100 yards, particularly if you were shooting suppressed subsonics? That's my thought anyway.

Cause it's not just about momentum transfer at the point of impact. It's about the right tool for the application. No one will use a pistol caliber carbine for hog hunting or expect it to turn cover into concealment like a rifle round.

But if I am in a CQB situation, making a quick vehicle exit or clearing rooms under stress, I prefer the SBR to a full length bbl with a can hanging off it.

Now, yes, anyone can hit a full size steel target at 100 yards with a 9mm handgun, but if that target at distance is returning fire,I prefer the longer bbl, a shoulder mount, and a red dot. Fast and accurate target acquisition, especially if the enemy is under cover, is clearly less advantageous with just a pistol.

For the record, in my particular case, I am building a 10.5" SBR in .300 Blk, primarily for CQB, and that is where I was coming from.

Carry on......

That will be cool. I think that it will still weigh more than the SIG. Weight is an issue if you are going to hump the thing around all day. I do my best work prone

[The Annoyed Man]

Oh for sure, it will weigh more. That sig is a nifty little gun. Heck, the 220 grain .308 bullets alone will weigh more than an entire 9mm cartridge. But I'm going to build my SBR as light as I can. It will sit on the same Spikes Gen II billet lower you already fired at our range day a few weeks ago. The Spikes Gen II Billet receiver halves together are really light (1.65 lbs combined). I'm using a Minimalist stock (5.8 oz), and the barrel I'm going to use weighs 1 lb 6 oz. The entire package is going to weigh 5.8 lb when it is finished — unloaded with optic and mount included.

I'm not to worried about weight.