Hotel question

[thetexan]

On second thought I'm not so sure.

This is very similar to Costco. Do you as a signatory to a hotel lease contract have to be notified by .06/.07 language in the contract to be legally compelled under contract law to follow the policies you, by signing the contract, agree volunterily to follow in acceptance of the contract.

If I have a private restaurant and you want to come in with a gun. I require you to enter into a contract that states that in consideration of entering into my private property you must agree to wear a tuxedo and carry no gun. You agree. And we enter into the contract. We have an offer and an acceptance. Entrance, the offer, is gained and you do not carry a gun, the consideration. Both parties are diminished, both parties have gained. Does .06 language have to be used?

This is just for discussion. I don't think there would be a requirement for .06/.07 because this goes outside the scope of 30.06 into contracts. This is similar to private memberships and voluntary agreements to those contracts. I this we are getting beyond the scope of .06/.07.

The statute is very clear what the authority of .06/.07. But it doesn't list any of the other ways under the sun by which one may be prohibited from carrying guns.

But like you said there would be no crime unless as a result of violating their policy you are asked to leave and fail to then you have trespassing trespassing.

UNLESS the contract DOES use .06/.07 language then you have both a contractual obligation as well as 30.06/.07 fulfilling language. Then if you violate the contract you have breach of contract AND a violation of the statute.

See how interesting all of this is!!!???

tex

[Solaris]

As you arrive in the room there is a 30.06/.07 notification and other policies on hotel letterhead siting on the desk.

Written notice is legal, I was referring to NO written notice, NO oral notice, and NO signs.

[Solaris]

Tex

I understand your point. The original intent of the law had nothing to do with CHL, and was to protect hunters and shooters from being evicted for carrying Longguns to/from there room. So it is a far stretch to think it was legislature intent to make web postings valid 06/07 notice. It is fun to theorize on the Internet about it, but can find nobody in the real legal world who practices it.

I'm not sure you do. You signed three electronic afadavit legally binding "documents" on line to get your LTC if you recall

tex

So what you are saying is let my non-ltc wife book all my hotels and then I entered into nothing electronically.

[blwill]

Now here is the problem. I occasionally stay at the Hampton Inn in Allen, Tx. Just for fun I checked to see if any rooms were available for tonight. On the web page was a link to Hotel Policies. This is what it displayed:

Firearms Policy

Carrying a weapon on these premises is prohibited and violators may be subject to arrest for trespass under applicable law.

http://hamptoninn3.hilton.com/en/hotels ... icies.html

That to me is the same as the old Gun-busters sign.

Then I selected the Downtown/Market Square Hampton Inn in San Antonio, checked its Hotel Policies and got this:

Firearms Policy

Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (Trespass by License Holder with a Concealed Handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (Handgun Licensing Law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.

Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (Trespass by License Holder with an Openly Carried Handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (Handgun Licensing Law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly.

http://hamptoninn3.hilton.com/en/hotels ... icies.html

Checked a few other Hampton Inns in San Antonio and got the same message as the Allen hotel. It appears each hotel can set its own policy and we just need to check it out before we actually make a reservation. It's a pain but just what we have to do...for now.

[Solaris]

This is very similar to Costco. Do you as a signatory to a hotel lease contract have to be notified by .06/.07 language in the contract to be legally compelled under contract law to follow the policies you, by signing the contract, agree volunterily to follow in acceptance of the contract.

I think you are missing the point of the thread. Civil law is not the issue here.

What folks want to know is, if there is NO oral notice, NO written notice, and NO signs when they check in, if they are then found to be carrying a handgun under LTC law, can/will an officer arrest for 06/07? The answer IMO is probably NOT, especially if the person is polite and asks to leave immediately.

Now if hotel owner says to the LEO, "but we had a no guns policy posted on our web site 2 months ago when he made the reservation!". I still think the answer is NO, especially if the person is polite and asks to leave immediately.

Others may agree or disagree, but absent any documented arrests, convictions, case law, it is all just opinions.

[Shadow41]

Scenario 1. I'm driving late at night. I'm tired. I decide to stop for the night. I stop at said motel and walk in. I did not pull up their website, I just saw it and stopped. There were no 06/07 signs. There was no verbal notice at the counter, and no written notice on the sign in contract. Did I receive notice? No

Scenario 2. Same as above, except there was written notice in the fine print on the sign in contract. Did I receive notice? Yes, so I do not sign in and I leave.

Scenario 3. I'm looking for a motel on the internet. I look at their website, and right there on the site is notice. Did I receive notice? Yes. Reverting back to what TAM said earlier, why would I want to give them my money anyway? I don't and I look elsewhere.

Am I missing something or isn't it really just that simple?

As an opinion, anyone or any company that wishes to restrict OC, CC or both should simply post the corresponding signage so that there is no question about their intent. Why are they trying to hide it?

[rotor]

I quote the following

"Texas law also requires that any policy prohibiting a guest’s right to bring firearms onto a hotel premises be disclosed in the terms and conditions of guest reservations on the hotel’s website at the time a reservation is made. Under Texas Occupations Code § 2155.103 (2015), if a guest makes a reservation by phone, the hotel’s written confirmation of the reservation must include information about how guests may access and review the applicable gun policy."

You can see this at
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail. ... 658e56baa7

Hotels must comply with the above. Your choice if you decide to book a room. They still need to have signage (or verbal or card) to keep the LTC out because not everyone is staying at the hotel.

[thetexan]

I don't believe ANY non-.06/.07 compliant gun policy, particularly one of prohibition, has any effect on an LTC whatsoever regardless of how that policy is communicated to the patron UNLESS he is verbally told at ANY time...ANY TIME...that OC or CC is prohibited...last week...last year...whenever...as long as THEY can prove they orally notified you.

Any written method of communicating their policy is meaningless UNLESS

1. It is "provided" to you and is 30.06/.07 compliant. At the point of "providing" that notification it becomes effective.

and / or

2. following policy is made a compulsory as part of the contract to lease whether the notification is compliant or not. .

Non .06/.07 Policy signs on the door, in your rooms, on web sites, etc. mean nothing to me. Here's the catch, UNLESS I AGREED TO FOLlOW POLICY when I signed on the dotted line.

tex

[Jketchum]

Now here is the problem. I occasionally stay at the Hampton Inn in Allen, Tx. Just for fun I checked to see if any rooms were available for tonight. On the web page was a link to Hotel Policies. This is what it displayed:

Firearms Policy

Carrying a weapon on these premises is prohibited and violators may be subject to arrest for trespass under applicable law.

http://hamptoninn3.hilton.com/en/hotels ... icies.html

That to me is the same as the old Gun-busters sign.

Then I selected the Downtown/Market Square Hampton Inn in San Antonio, checked its Hotel Policies and got this:

Firearms Policy

Pursuant to Section 30.06, Penal Code (Trespass by License Holder with a Concealed Handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (Handgun Licensing Law), may not enter this property with a concealed handgun.

Pursuant to Section 30.07, Penal Code (Trespass by License Holder with an Openly Carried Handgun), a person licensed under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code (Handgun Licensing Law), may not enter this property with a handgun that is carried openly.

http://hamptoninn3.hilton.com/en/hotels ... icies.html

Checked a few other Hampton Inns in San Antonio and got the same message as the Allen hotel. It appears each hotel can set its own policy and we just need to check it out before we actually make a reservation. It's a pain but just what we have to do...for now.

say there is .06/.07 signs up and or your aware of the notifications online, is it legal to unholster and place your firearm in your luggage (not conceled on your person at that point) and enter the hotel? your not " Carrying "

[thetexan]

If signs are up what effect does a web notification have in the analysis?

Is that firearm in your luggage on or about your person?

[winters]

I always stay in marriots and never see guns signs. I know someone is going to have a problem but i won't stay at a hotel without my gun with me. Even "nice" hotels have all sorts of undesirable people hanging around.

[gljjt]

I always stay in marriots and never see guns signs. I know someone is going to have a problem but i won't stay at a hotel without my gun with me. Even "nice" hotels have all sorts of undesirable people hanging around.

Marriott has a great selection of brands for various room needs and budgets and I've never seen any kind of gun sign on any Marriott property.

[gljjt]

There is no "effective notice". You're referring to effective consent. Notice is not "effective". It either is or isn't given.

See PC §46.035. The phrase "effective notice" is used five times.

Not only there but 411.2031. In all cases the language states "effective notice under Section 30.06" except .2031 which states "effective notice under Section 411.204". So, yes, the statutes refer to the condition of having received effective notice. But what does that mean?

In all cases the language points back to 30.06/.07 which has a very specific black and white meaning. Likewise with .2031 pointing back to .204. 30.06 says precisely what notice is. There is no guesswork.

You are right that they use the phrase. My point was that 30.06 drives the train as to notice and that signs are not a requirement. Use of the word effective does not somehow muddy the preciseness of 30.06.

That may not have been his intent and if not I apologize

tex

I think you are saying the following, which is my understanding of the law:

411.204 puts a signage requirement on retail alcohol sales points and hospitals. It does not put any limitation on a LTC holder.

411.2031 addresses college campuses but references back to 30.06.

So...these two statutes in and of them selves don't prescribe any kind of notice that affects LTC holders.

[thetexan]

.204 is specific. The others are references that point back to .06/.07 which is specific. So in all cases we have specific and precisely prescribed descriptions of what constitutes notification.

[gljjt]

.204 is specific. The others are references that point back to .06/.07 which is specific. So in all cases we have specific and precisely prescribed descriptions of what constitutes notification.

There is a statutory requirement for some entities to post the sign described in .204, but there is no statutory requirement for the LTC holder to honor the sign. Therefore, only 30.06 / 07 apply.