Had an interesting experience yesterday

[flintknapper]

lildave40, when I saw her walking toward me I was in the process of running to the guys porch. He was using force to move her into his home against her will. Use your imagination as to why (she has been described as a recently acquired girlfriend). Under the circumstances (with legal support below), I believed he was committing aggravated kidnapping and was prepared to legally use deadly force against him if he refused to comply.

^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not against trying to aid a third party, but having no more information than you had at the time, I think the potential for real trouble (for you) might exist....(had you followed this course of action).

I can think of a lot of scenarios that might 'appear' to an observer to be something it is not.

Just be mighty careful what you choose to get involved in. It can turn sour real quick.

[casp625]

lildave40, when I saw her walking toward me I was in the process of running to the guys porch. He was using force to move her into his home against her will. Use your imagination as to why (she has been described as a recently acquired girlfriend). Under the circumstances (with legal support below), I believed he was committing aggravated kidnapping and was prepared to legally use deadly force against him if he refused to comply.

^^^^^^^^^^^

I am not against trying to aid a third party, but having no more information than you had at the time, I think the potential for real trouble (for you) might exist....(had you followed this course of action).

I can think of a lot of scenarios that might 'appear' to an observer to be something it is not.

Just be mighty careful what you choose to get involved in. It can turn sour real quick.

When taking my CHL class, they played us the following video depicting a possible kidnapping and asked us how we would have reacted to the situation if we had our CHL and were carrying a handgun:



Turns out "Her family dragged her into their minivan -- kicking and screaming -- because she was trying to avoid a move to Florida, the Stafford County Sheriff's Office said." - http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 94434.html

[imkopaka]

I understand your position, but this woman was obviously not a child. And as I said, I wouldn't just run over and shoot, I was simply prepared to use deadly force if he didn't cooperate. By that I mean if I approach and tell him, "let her go and put your hands up," and he continues to restrain her, you better believe he's going down.

[ELB]

Yes, as described the female was an adult, not a kid. The only doubt I had in the OPs story was whether the screaming woman would accurately report to the police what happened when she calmed down. A lot of stories of domestic victims changing their stories when the dust settles.

...
Turns out "Her family dragged her into their minivan -- kicking and screaming -- because she was trying to avoid a move to Florida, the Stafford County Sheriff's Office said." - http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 94434.html

I note the story says the
"The commonwealth's attorney in Stafford County will be meeting with the sheriff's office to determine whether the family will be facing charges."

The girl in that story was 17, not exactly a kid. I wonder what happened with the family Tough call for witnesses.

Here's the story of another 18 year old girl. http://limatunesrangediary.blogspot.com ... fense.html
Apparently no one was even a good witness. Rough road to becoming a defensive firearms instructor (which is what she is now).

[imkopaka]

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for their opinions. Even if I come off as defensive, arrogant, or self-righteous, I really do appreciate your comments. They provide me with largely positive influences and multiple points of view that allow me to adjust my attitude, and by extension, my future actions. This is why I post here. You are all helping me learn.

[imkopaka]

Something I thought was a little funny today:
I went to the hardware store here in town to pick up a tool I needed to repair my shop-vac, and being a bit on edge from this whole ordeal I was unashamedly OC. The guy at the hardware store commented with a chuckle that I was the first person he's seen OC. I couldn't help but notice that I haven't seen anyone else OC either.

[jmra]

OP, I think you did everything correctly. I found myself in a similar situation years back and reacted the same. Afterwards I sat through a two hour lecture from my LEO friend about how stupid I was.
Getting involved in a domestic is always dicey. If this truly was a domestic you will more than likely see the same scenario with the same woman play out again and again. I say the first time is benifit of the doubt, the second, third, and fourth times are calls to the police from my driveway or my living room.
In my situation my wife and I physically extracted a woman being attacked on Canal St in New Orleans as we were leaving a fireworks display on the river on the 4th of July (looking back I wonder how many passerbys thought we were kidnapping the woman). She asked us to take her to her parents house. When we arrived the first thing her mom said was "what did you do to make him mad this time?" Before we left the dad had already called the abusive husband to come and get his wife. I learned then that there was nothing I could do to save this young lady. Be careful you don't get sucked into someone else's self-destructive behavior.
Good luck and stay safe.

[Bryanmc]

Sounds like you did fine. After reading through the whole thread, I'm wondering where the "meth lab / meth dealer" part came from. I didn't see the op say that, so it seems it was conjured up from "problems of an undisclosable nature", which in reality could be many many things. I'm sure if they suspect he's dealing or cooking (especially) there's already an investigation and the OP's unrequested assistance isn't necessary.

[imkopaka]

Sounds like you did fine. After reading through the whole thread, I'm wondering where the "meth lab / meth dealer" part came from. I didn't see the op say that, so it seems it was conjured up from "problems of an undisclosable nature", which in reality could be many many things. I'm sure if they suspect he's dealing or cooking (especially) there's already an investigation and the OP's unrequested assistance isn't necessary.

Yes, I did say that. One of the neighbors who's lived here longer than I have tells me that this guy used to be a correctional officer at the prison in town until about 3 or 4 years ago when he got addicted to meth and get fired. Since then he's been selling (and maybe making) it to support his addiction and provide income. I've heard from other (very reputable) people that this is more or less correct.

[imkopaka]

OP, I think you did everything correctly. I found myself in a similar situation years back and reacted the same. Afterwards I sat through a two hour lecture from my LEO friend about how stupid I was.
Getting involved in a domestic is always dicey. If this truly was a domestic you will more than likely see the same scenario with the same woman play out again and again. I say the first time is benifit of the doubt, the second, third, and fourth times are calls to the police from my driveway or my living room.
In my situation my wife and I physically extracted a woman being attacked on Canal St in New Orleans as we were leaving a fireworks display on the river on the 4th of July (looking back I wonder how many passerbys thought we were kidnapping the woman). She asked us to take her to her parents house. When we arrived the first thing her mom said was "what did you do to make him mad this time?" Before we left the dad had already called the abusive husband to come and get his wife. I learned then that there was nothing I could do to save this young lady. Be careful you don't get sucked into someone else's self-destructive behavior.
Good luck and stay safe.

Yes, I know quite well that I'm stupid. But it's just not within me to stand idly by while someone is victimized. Even if helping them means I could face legal trouble, that's usually an afterthought for me. Being a protector is my nature - always has been. I just do what I think is right and trust God to protect me from unjust repercussions.

[rentz]

Make contact with the police, make sure they know your very concerned about a meth dealer on your street
Watch your back meth people are paranoid

YUP!...maybe they can do extra drive by's to show presence for a while as well. I know our police dept does this when theres been recent car and garage break-ins

[misterlarry]

I think you did well.

Watch your 6 with this guy going forward.

[jmra]

OP, I think you did everything correctly. I found myself in a similar situation years back and reacted the same. Afterwards I sat through a two hour lecture from my LEO friend about how stupid I was.
Getting involved in a domestic is always dicey. If this truly was a domestic you will more than likely see the same scenario with the same woman play out again and again. I say the first time is benifit of the doubt, the second, third, and fourth times are calls to the police from my driveway or my living room.
In my situation my wife and I physically extracted a woman being attacked on Canal St in New Orleans as we were leaving a fireworks display on the river on the 4th of July (looking back I wonder how many passerbys thought we were kidnapping the woman). She asked us to take her to her parents house. When we arrived the first thing her mom said was "what did you do to make him mad this time?" Before we left the dad had already called the abusive husband to come and get his wife. I learned then that there was nothing I could do to save this young lady. Be careful you don't get sucked into someone else's self-destructive behavior.
Good luck and stay safe.

Yes, I know quite well that I'm stupid. But it's just not within me to stand idly by while someone is victimized. Even if helping them means I could face legal trouble, that's usually an afterthought for me. Being a protector is my nature - always has been. I just do what I think is right and trust God to protect me from unjust repercussions.

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that your actions were stupid - I would have (and have) done the same thing.

[imkopaka]

Yes, I know quite well that I'm stupid. But it's just not within me to stand idly by while someone is victimized. Even if helping them means I could face legal trouble, that's usually an afterthought for me. Being a protector is my nature - always has been. I just do what I think is right and trust God to protect me from unjust repercussions.

Just to clarify, I wasn't suggesting that your actions were stupid - I would have (and have) done the same thing.

I know you weren't suggesting that, but I also know that I tend to become blind to consequences anytime I am in the right. As if simply doing the right thing in the way I see best also makes that a legal, safe, or justifiable way. I don't concern myself with questions like, "could I get hurt," or "is this legal." If I'm doing the right thing my forethought typically ends there and (if I ended up in court) I would expect the jury to see it my way because I was right. This is a stupid mentality though, because as we all know: the world doesn't work that way!

[imkopaka]

Basically, three things:

Makes sure that whoever is calling 911 notifies them that you are a CHL holder and have your weapon out, as well as a description of you (color of your shirt, race, build, whatever will easily identify you from a distance).

Make the police comfortable. Talk to them (even if it means shouting) to communicate the situation. If doing so would not endanger your life or the life of the third party you are attempting to help, put your weapon down and step away from it (or holster it depending on the situation) so the police know you are not a threat and you intend to comply.

COMPLY WITH ALL POLICE ORDERS.

That is all.