Is the statesman article about carry in state mental hospitals accurate?

[anomie]

There's an article on the Austin American statesman alleging that state mental hospitals can't prohibit carry because they can't post 30.06 or 30.07 signs

I look at the statutes and see something about hospitals licensed under health and safety code 241 having a requirement to put up a 51%-without-the-51 sign, which is not a 30.06/07 sign.

However, there's a lot of effective date stuff and I'm not sure if I'm parsing everything correctly.

Is this a case of, they could prohibit carry if they'd put up 51-without-the-51 signs - or are they really unable to prohibit carry by license holders?

[JP171]

I believe they can prohibit and I think it actually falls under the same idea as a correctional facility, most state mental hospital are actually called psychiatric detention centers so sounds like a jail to me

[anomie]

well, the current state seems to be this (although I am not a lawyer, just a dude trying to parse the law, so I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking) ->

46.035 (b) (4) says that it's illegal to carry into a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code.
46.035 (i) says that 46.035 (b)(4) doesn't apply if the actor did not receive effective notice under 30.06 or 30.07
411.209 says that a state agency cannot post under 30.06 or 30.07 (and there are fines for doing so)

So it's a catch-22 - a state mental institution could prohibit if they weren't a state agency (edit: I suppose I am just making an assumption here that they're licensed under chapter 241, health and safety code), but they are, so they can't give effective notice, so 46.035(b)(4) can never apply.

However, there's this 411.204 (b) bit that I'm not sure if it's old code or currently valid or what that says ->
"A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number "51"."

So my question is basically, is that bit valid, or am I missing something that says it isn't - and if it is, is there a law that makes carrying into a hospital posting a 411.204(b) '51-sign-without-the-51' illegal, because I can't seem to find one? (there's the bit that makes it illegal to carry into a 51% establishment, but a hospital isn't a 51% establishment even if 411.204(b) is currently valid law ... if I grok things right)

[JALLEN]

Accuracy in the American-Statesman is quite a novel concept, fascinating, really. I wonder if it has ever been tried?

When I lived in Austin a long, long time ago, as a UT student, back when I read the paper, it was said that the AAS averaged more typos per column than the Wall Street Journal did per issue!

Reading the paper then was always an adventure.

[anomie]

Yeah, I definitely think this is a case of 'even if this is true, it's probably not the intent of the law to make it impossible to prohibit license holders from carrying into a place where the police are checking their guns before entering', but it's not like the Statesman is going to speak to that. They get more out of a 'look at how crazy this is' spin.

[baldeagle]

In the Health and Safety Code, mental health facilities are referred to as "state hospitals". It's my assumption that they would fall under the same restriction as any other hospital. If they post 30.06 and/or 30.07, you may not lawfully enter with a handgun.

[anomie]

That's the point, I think - they can't legally post 30.06 or 30.07 because they are a state agency (which is how they are different from any other hospital)

If you're a hospital that can't legally post a 30.06 or 30.07 you're a hospital that can't ever make 46.035 (b) (4) applicable.

[JP171]

In the Health and Safety Code, mental health facilities are referred to as "state hospitals". It's my assumption that they would fall under the same restriction as any other hospital. If they post 30.06 and/or 30.07, you may not lawfully enter with a handgun.

ok I do know at Rusk State Hospital, police officer must disarm to go inside beyond the intake room, so that to me makes it a jail and yes they have lockers for the LEO's to lock up their weapons. I know this because I had to take several patients there and was escorted by at least one LEO every time, so again makes it a jail

[drjoker]

deleted

[Bladed]

well, the current state seems to be this (although I am not a lawyer, just a dude trying to parse the law, so I could be wrong, which is why I'm asking) ->

46.035 (b) (4) says that it's illegal to carry into a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code.
46.035 (i) says that 46.035 (b)(4) doesn't apply if the actor did not receive effective notice under 30.06 or 30.07
411.209 says that a state agency cannot post under 30.06 or 30.07 (and there are fines for doing so)

So it's a catch-22 - a state mental institution could prohibit if they weren't a state agency (edit: I suppose I am just making an assumption here that they're licensed under chapter 241, health and safety code), but they are, so they can't give effective notice, so 46.035(b)(4) can never apply.

However, there's this 411.204 (b) bit that I'm not sure if it's old code or currently valid or what that says ->
"A hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, shall prominently display at each entrance to the hospital or nursing home, as appropriate, a sign that complies with the requirements of Subsection (c) other than the requirement that the sign include on its face the number "51"."

So my question is basically, is that bit valid, or am I missing something that says it isn't - and if it is, is there a law that makes carrying into a hospital posting a 411.204(b) '51-sign-without-the-51' illegal, because I can't seem to find one? (there's the bit that makes it illegal to carry into a 51% establishment, but a hospital isn't a 51% establishment even if 411.204(b) is currently valid law ... if I grok things right)

A public hospital can still be lawfully posted 30.06, just as a governmental meeting can still be lawfully posted 30.06. Posting 30.06 on property owned or leased by a governmental entity is only prohibited IF the facility is not a location listed under Penal Code Section 46.03 or 46.035. Hospitals and governmental meetings are listed under 46.035.

The reason a state-owned mental health facility can't post 30.06 is that it's licensed under Section 552, not 241, of the Health and Safety Code, and PC Sec. 46.035 specifically refers to hospitals licensed under HSC Sec. 241.

As far as I can tell, concealed carry has been legal in state mental hospitals since 2003, when the legislature passed PC Sec. 30.06(e), prohibiting the posting of 30.06 on public property not listed under Sec. 46.03 or 46.035, but apparently nobody took notice until this session when:

A) The legislature passed open carry; and
B) The legislature passed SB 273, creating a civil penalty for posting an unenforceable 30.06 sign on a property owned or leased by a governmental entity.

Edited to correct "242" as "241."

[ScottDLS]

This.

[Oldgringo]

Who would want to carry in a state mental hospital? Even the security people don't carry in either the state hospital or the penitentiaries here. This falls under the heading of: Good Grief!

[flintknapper]

Accuracy in the American-Statesman is quite a novel concept, fascinating, really. I wonder if it has ever been tried?

It was 'OK' in the late 60's....but by the time I moved away from Austin in the mid 80's....it had gotten pretty bad.

[anomie]

Who would want to carry in a state mental hospital? Even the security people don't carry in either the state hospital or the penitentiaries here. This falls under the heading of: Good Grief!

I don't think anyone really does. The people I've talked to that I have reason to think have licenses that I know from outside of this board have all been pretty much of a "I wouldn't do it" mind. However, with it being brought to light by the change to add penalties the people opposed aren't going to let an opportunity to say 'look how stupid it is, and that's what they wanted to do!' pass by. They'll ignore that it is something that probably wasn't intended, and looks like it could be pretty easily fixed by a very small change in the law.

The reason a state-owned mental health facility can't post 30.06 is that it's licensed under Section 552, not 242, of the Health and Safety Code, and PC Sec. 46.035 specifically refers to hospitals licensed under HSC Sec. 242.

You pointed me straight at the bits I was missing, thank you!

[anomie]

Sec. 241.004. EXEMPTIONS. This chapter does not apply to a facility:

(1) licensed under Chapter 242 or 577;

(2) maintained or operated by the federal government or an agency of the federal government; or

(3) maintained or operated by this state or an agency of this state.

So 241 itself says 241 doesn't apply to state agencies.