Is Your Church / Synagogue / Mosque Posting 30.07?

[Oldgringo]

We may be posting this sign at our church entrance"
"We welcome both open and concealed licensed carrying of handguns. If carrying openly please keep your gun holstered in a holster equipped with a thumb break strap or other type of retention feature. Please do not shoot at any wasps or other bugs.
We offer prayer and special counseling for those who carry Glocks."

[Excaliber]

I bet if someone ran the numbers they would discover that OC is something most churches will seldom if ever encounter and spending a lot of time worrying about it is pretty much a waste of time.
I ran the numbers using some very liberal gestimates where firm data was missing and based on those numbers the probabilities suggested that, absent an announcement from the church welcoming OCers, we might encounter an OCer once every couple of years.
As others have stated, addressing these instances individually makes a lot of sense to me. Playing devils advocate (excuse the pun), I wonder how many evil doers would mistakingly assume that a 30.07 sign equated to a gun free zone making the posted church a much greater target than it was previously.

If someone were to act on that mistaken assumption, it would likely be a mistake they'd make only once.

[Oldgringo]

I bet if someone ran the numbers they would discover that OC is something most churches will seldom if ever encounter and spending a lot of time worrying about it is pretty much a waste of time.
I ran the numbers using some very liberal gestimates where firm data was missing and based on those numbers the probabilities suggested that, absent an announcement from the church welcoming OCers, we might encounter an OCer once every couple of years.
As others have stated, addressing these instances individually makes a lot of sense to me. Playing devils advocate (excuse the pun), I wonder how many evil doers would mistakingly assume that a 30.07 sign equated to a gun free zone making the posted church a much greater target than it was previously.

If someone were to act on that mistaken assumption, it would likely be a mistake they'd make only once.

,
You know, I was thinking this morning instead of listening. There may be 3 or 4 of us who CC in our small town Methodist church...the entrance doors are behind all of us.

[Oldgringo]

I bet if someone ran the numbers they would discover that OC is something most churches will seldom if ever encounter and spending a lot of time worrying about it is pretty much a waste of time.
I ran the numbers using some very liberal gestimates where firm data was missing and based on those numbers the probabilities suggested that, absent an announcement from the church welcoming OCers, we might encounter an OCer once every couple of years.
As others have stated, addressing these instances individually makes a lot of sense to me. Playing devils advocate (excuse the pun), I wonder how many evil doers would mistakingly assume that a 30.07 sign equated to a gun free zone making the posted church a much greater target than it was previously.

If someone were to act on that mistaken assumption, it would likely be a mistake they'd make only once.

,
You know, I was thinking this morning instead of listening. There may be 3 or 4 of us who CC in our small town Methodist church...the entrance doors are behind all of us.

[jmra]

I bet if someone ran the numbers they would discover that OC is something most churches will seldom if ever encounter and spending a lot of time worrying about it is pretty much a waste of time.
I ran the numbers using some very liberal gestimates where firm data was missing and based on those numbers the probabilities suggested that, absent an announcement from the church welcoming OCers, we might encounter an OCer once every couple of years.
As others have stated, addressing these instances individually makes a lot of sense to me. Playing devils advocate (excuse the pun), I wonder how many evil doers would mistakingly assume that a 30.07 sign equated to a gun free zone making the posted church a much greater target than it was previously.

If someone were to act on that mistaken assumption, it would likely be a mistake they'd make only once.

However, it is still something I would like to avoid.

[flintknapper]

Our church is small and normally has about 65-70 persons in attendance any given Sabbath.

We have not yet discussed the matter of OC in Church but the Church Board will take it up soon. We always solicit the thoughts of the congregation on at least two separate gatherings and take their response into consideration. Ultimately the Pastor, Elders and Church Board members (after praying for guidance) will come to a decision.

Concealed Carry has been both allowed and encouraged for at least the last 10 years and more than a few members are armed each time we gather to worship. This is common knowledge among the congregation and has been well accepted.

My expectation is that NO 30.07 signs will be posted. Open Carry in the Sanctuary will be discouraged and those whose enter will be politely informed of our policy followed by a 'request' that they conceal. No such requests will be made outside of the Sanctuary or at off premises Church Sponsored Events.

I will report back....what actually develops, but the above will be my suggestion and I expect to see good support for it.

[The Annoyed Man]

Nobody OC'd today. Here's a picture of the sign at one of our entrances. They're all like that:



Obviously, you can tell from the alarm keypad next to it that the sign is too small, even though the wording is correct. The church leaders are aware that the signs are not compliant, and they are going to replace them with valid signs. In the meantime, every service has off-duty LEOs who are our security team, and if they see someone open-carrying, they'll give effective verbal notice that open carry is not allowed, and ask the person to either cover it up or leave. Once the new compliant signs are up, they will simply call police if anyone open carries. Before open carry, this church has been very friendly to concealed carry. The senior pastor is aware that people carry and he approves. They just don't want open carry.

I have posted this location and the picture at texas3006.com.

[oljames3]

There are 30 churches in Elgin, Texas, give or take. I've personally checked about 1/3 of those. No signs. No Elgin churches are listed in Texas3006.com.

First Baptist has no signs. An announcement requesting that folks "refrain from exercising the right to open carry in the sanctuary so as to not be a distraction" runs as part of the announcement slide show before the service. Authorized persons will give effective notice to those carrying openly.

This morning I only saw one empty holster. We, as a church body, are very good at concealing our firearms. CC is fine.

As I have, I will continue to conceal in the sanctuary. I'll conceal or not as I feel best elsewhere.

Y'all carry your way.

[Countryside]

We had our regular evening business meeting today and this topic was brought up. We are a small, rural country church. There was a general consensus that it wasn't a major worry. Anyone who is licensed to carry has passed the letter of the law, and it is unlikely we'll have anyone open carry unless they're a visitor. I brought up the various angles of it. To not post was to make someone the center of attention if we approached them to ask them to not open carry, thus creating an unwanted scene and embarrassment to someone. I also said if we're going to forbid it then we should do it by the letter of the law since licensed carriers have fulfilled the law themselves. To do it we would have to post legal 30.07 signs in English and Spanish on every door of the church and fellowship hall. No one was too excited about doing that. I also "officially" announced to them that I was carrying concealed (I'm the associate pastor. Many of them knew, and the pastor knew.) He is seriously considering getting his LTC, and another one of our members is too. We ended up all agreeing that until it becomes a problem we aren't going to worry about it.

[chuck j]

There is much controversy open carrying in church , there should be . I am not here to tell you how to think . I give everyone here credit for being able to think . Temper your desires with reason . Consider the common good . Make the best decision for a long term result , not short term gratification . Do what is right , may not be what you want but will be in time , patience . Stay the course , you will accomplish your goal . Just thoughts .

[oljames3]

There is much controversy open carrying in church , there should be . I am not here to tell you how to think . I give everyone here credit for being able to think . Temper your desires with reason . Consider the common good . Make the best decision for a long term result , not short term gratification . Do what is right , may not be what you want but will be in time , patience . Stay the course , you will accomplish your goal . Just thoughts .

[mloamiller]

My church posted 30.07 signs, but no 30.06. To my knowledge, nothing has been said or announced, just quietly implemented.

CC is very prevalent in our congregation. Normal Sunday attendance is around 6500+, and I suspect we have 200+ carrying each Sunday, not counting the off-duty LEOs. I know for a fact that out of our 20 member Sunday School class, almost half have their LTC and most carry every Sunday (many of the wives don't always carry at church as they are often working with kids at some point).

[NotRPB]

Disciples of Christ in Burnet posted a nice polite sign (I forgot my phone to take a photo)

"As a consideration for our... please do not carry openly... 30.07.... Official 30.07 notice will be presented to you upon entering.... "

(and inside were cards with the proper language, so you could take one if so inclined)

So concealed carry is still ok there.

[jmra]

My church posted 30.07 signs, but no 30.06. To my knowledge, nothing has been said or announced, just quietly implemented.

CC is very prevalent in our congregation. Normal Sunday attendance is around 6500+, and I suspect we have 200+ carrying each Sunday, not counting the off-duty LEOs. I know for a fact that out of our 20 member Sunday School class, almost half have their LTC and most carry every Sunday (many of the wives don't always carry at church as they are often working with kids at some point).

If your normal attendance is 6500 and you have 200+ carrying, you are way above statistical probabilities.
I'd be willing to bet your estimate is way off. I'll explain: LTC makes up 3% of the population (3% of 6500 is 195). Obviously demographics can skew this number some but not by much. It's safe to say that at least half of LTC holders rarely if ever carry. Statistics would suggest that at most there would be under 100. Given the number of times that people on this forum have been corrected regarding the incorrect belief that church carry is illegal and the number of LTC I've encountered that simply can't understand why someone would need to carry at church, I'd be willing to bet the number is substantially lower than 100.
I believed for a number of years that carry in our was significantly higher than it actually is until multiple conversations with people that I knew were licensed revealed that they either didn't carry at all or didn't carry at church. Of course YMMV.

[Richbirdhunter]

My church posted 30.07 signs, but no 30.06. To my knowledge, nothing has been said or announced, just quietly implemented.

CC is very prevalent in our congregation. Normal Sunday attendance is around 6500+, and I suspect we have 200+ carrying each Sunday, not counting the off-duty LEOs. I know for a fact that out of our 20 member Sunday School class, almost half have their LTC and most carry every Sunday (many of the wives don't always carry at church as they are often working with kids at some point).

If your normal attendance is 6500 and you have 200+ carrying, you are way above statistical probabilities.
I'd be willing to bet your estimate is way off. I'll explain: LTC makes up 3% of the population (3% of 6500 is 195). Obviously demographics can skew this number some but not by much. It's safe to say that at least half of LTC holders rarely if ever carry. Statistics would suggest that at most there would be under 100. Given the number of times that people on this forum have been corrected regarding the incorrect belief that church carry is illegal and the number of LTC I've encountered that simply can't understand why someone would need to carry at church, I'd be willing to bet the number is substantially lower than 100.
I believed for a number of years that carry in our was significantly higher than it actually is until multiple conversations with people that I knew were licensed revealed that they either didn't carry at all or didn't carry at church. Of course YMMV.

There is over 900,000 CHL holders in Texas, I wonder what percentage of us are evangelical Christians?