OC police training pdf file.

[nightmare69]

There is an updated one listed as Oct.2015 with fewer errors but it is too large for me to attach here.

What errors?

Don't know all of them which is why there is a newer version. Look in the back about hospital and nursing home carry if you have a CHL. This says not allowed. Law says needs a 30.06. Oct 2015 version has not corrected this one yet. All of this is complicated and easy to make errors with. It is a very good document though.

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

[Keith B]

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

And that is correct.

[TXhntr88]

Here's a link to an updated paper dated December 22, 2015

http://www.tml.org/p/Dec%202015%20QA%20 ... INIONS.pdf

[nightmare69]

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

And that is correct.

It's been a long day, love working the holidays. So a LTC holder can carry in Six Flags as long as it's not posted? I though amusement parks were off limits just like race tracks and professional sporting events. They don't have to be posted.

[mojo84]

I find pages 19 and 20 of the latest version particularly of interest. Seems they are leaning to reasonable suspicion other than just carrying a firearm openly being required to stop and demand to see one's license.

Several current and former members have strongly argued reasonable suspicion other than carrying isn't required. Since these folks would be on the hook for funding a defense and paying a judgrment, I think their opinion is pretty well founded.

[locke_n_load]

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

And that is correct.

It's been a long day, love working the holidays. So a LTC holder can carry in Six Flags as long as it's not posted? I though amusement parks were off limits just like race tracks and professional sporting events. They don't have to be posted.

Correct. Same goes for hospitals and churches.
See 46.035, after all the text for the afforementioned places, you will see:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

So those places must post proper signage to bar carrier entry.

[baldeagle]

Hmm... Interesting that the question on page 14 "What federal law governs a police officer’s authority to question a person who is legally carrying a firearm?" discusses when an officer can legally question/detain someone is completely undermined by a very dishonest reading of the law in the question on page 15 "Are there specific rules relating to whether a police officer can question or disarm a person who is openly carrying a holstered handgun in public?"

The disarming portion of it, I understand (IMO it should be rare that an officer feels the NEED to disarm a license holder "is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual"). The previous entry discussion of PC 411.205 is a completely dishonest interpretation of the law that was PRESCRIPTIVE for how an encounter with an officer when legally detained and required to provide ID should play out. PC 411.205 in no way grants authority to the officer to demand the ID in the first place.

It seems based on the way this is being presented is that the trainers are glossing over the first question and then dishonestly and intentionally misinterpreting PC 411.205 to give authority where no authority is granted by the law.

If this is so, I'm EXTREMELY disappointed by the way this training is being presented to officers and hope that it is quickly fixed in the next legislative session.

I'm having trouble following you. PC means Penal Code, but 411. generally refers to GC (Government Code) The Penal Code only has 71 chapters. GC 411.205 simply states that a license holder must present both drivers license and LTC when requested. I don't see how that could be misinterpreted.

Sec. 411.205. REQUIREMENT TO DISPLAY LICENSE. If a license holder is carrying a handgun on or about the license holder's person when a magistrate or a peace officer demands that the license holder display identification, the license holder shall display both the license holder's driver's license or identification certificate issued by the department and the license holder's handgun license.

Perhaps you can clarify?

[TXhntr88]

My understanding reading the Dec 22, 2015 document...

Amusement park or premises of an established place of worship:
- Handgun Concealed Carry (With License): Yes, unless 30.06 sign posted; Penal Code 46.035(b)(5)&(6) & (i); 30.06
- Handgun open carry in belt or shoulder holster (with License): Yes, unless 30.07 sign posted; Penal Code 46.035(b)(5)&(6) & (i); 30.07

Premises of a Racetrack:
- No (both Concealed & Open Carry w/ License); Penal Code 46.03(a)(4)

Premises of a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event (unless sport shooting event):
- Handgun Concealed Carry (With License): No, until August 1, 2016. After that, yes, unless 30.06 sign is posted; Penal Code 46.035(b)(2)&(l)
- Handgun open carry in belt or shoulder holster (with License): No; Penal Code 46.035(b)(2)

[nightmare69]

Here's a link to an updated paper dated December 22, 2015

http://www.tml.org/p/Dec%202015%20QA%20 ... INIONS.pdf

Thanks for sharing the updated version. I like how they incorporated the AG's opinion. I will be definitely handing this to my Chief.

Now that everyone has had time read over it, do most agree with it?

[C-dub]

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

And that is correct.

It's been a long day, love working the holidays. So a LTC holder can carry in Six Flags as long as it's not posted? I though amusement parks were off limits just like race tracks and professional sporting events. They don't have to be posted.

Correct. Same goes for hospitals and churches.
See 46.035, after all the text for the afforementioned places, you will see:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

The same does go for churches, but this pdf doesn't say that. It also says that a CHL/LTC cannot carry concealed on the campus of an institution of higher education without distinguishing between in buildings or just walking around outside of them. That's a big difference and huge error IMO that may cause someone a huge problem. It has this in the text and the chart format.

[nightmare69]

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

And that is correct.

It's been a long day, love working the holidays. So a LTC holder can carry in Six Flags as long as it's not posted? I though amusement parks were off limits just like race tracks and professional sporting events. They don't have to be posted.

Correct. Same goes for hospitals and churches.
See 46.035, after all the text for the afforementioned places, you will see:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

The same does go for churches, but this pdf doesn't say that. It also says that a CHL/LTC cannot carry concealed on the campus of an institution of higher education without distinguishing between in buildings or just walking around outside of them. That's a big difference and huge error IMO that may cause someone a huge problem. It has this in the text and the chart format.

The updated version corrects this.

[C-dub]

I noticed it says one can carry in an amusement parks as long as it's not posted. Good catch.

And that is correct.

It's been a long day, love working the holidays. So a LTC holder can carry in Six Flags as long as it's not posted? I though amusement parks were off limits just like race tracks and professional sporting events. They don't have to be posted.

Correct. Same goes for hospitals and churches.
See 46.035, after all the text for the afforementioned places, you will see:

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

The same does go for churches, but this pdf doesn't say that. It also says that a CHL/LTC cannot carry concealed on the campus of an institution of higher education without distinguishing between in buildings or just walking around outside of them. That's a big difference and huge error IMO that may cause someone a huge problem. It has this in the text and the chart format.

The updated version corrects this.

Cool. Nice that was caught.

[rotor]

If you look at what would be page 22 of the December issue it still says that one can not carry at a hospital or nursing home. This is in the graphic part which I think most people will use. It still needs correction.

[Skiprr]

Now that we've had documents posted and discussion is underway, moving this out of the "Site Announcements, Questions" area to the more appropriate "General CHL Discussion."

[cb1000rider]

Several current and former members have strongly argued reasonable suspicion other than carrying isn't required. Since these folks would be on the hook for funding a defense and paying a judgrment, I think their opinion is pretty well founded.

I agree with you here, not based on forum member's arguments, but based on the public comments made by leadership in various PDs. Austin's police chief has said that he intends to check ID if anyone is open carrying....


Edit: Now I read other members of Austin's PD leadership saying the opposite:
"We're going to assume they're a license holder, probably," Austin Police Department training commander Andy Michael told AP."