Is Your Church / Synagogue / Mosque Posting 30.07?

[Bitter Clinger]

Well, I haven't seen anything at our place yet, but I have not been attending regularly as the politically liberal clergy's sermons get my blood to boiling, the exact opposite of how one should feel on the Sabbath

I am sure that the same liberal congregants who dress ostentatiously and permit their young daughters to dress in inappropriately suggestive clothing, will be the first to object any legal form of carry.

[allisji]

My father-in-law is the pastor. He knows that I got my LTC, and I assume that he knows that I've been carrying concealed ever since. If he doesn't know that, then clearly I've been doing a good job, as I'm on the stage playing guitar during worship and I'm in his home most of the rest of the afternoon usually. However, he's not the rule-maker for the church. That responsibility mostly falls upon some of the elder leadership. I don't know how much they consider guns in church as a possibility or as something that actually happens. However, I'd guess that there's at least one or two others who routinely are armed on Sundays.

I'm glad to read the responses in this thread. Because I am afraid that my church may not be ready for someone to open carry, and if nobody has talked about it yet, then we probably need to be talking to the ushers and elders.

There are definitely many people in my church (and in any congregation I'm certain) who would explicitly object to allowing guns in church. I'm considering talking to my FIL about open carry. I honestly don't think that my church has considered how to respond if someone open carries on a Sunday morning, and I am fearful that the response could be bad if some of the folks don't start talking about what to do.

[SewTexas]

My father-in-law is the pastor. He knows that I got my LTC, and I assume that he knows that I've been carrying concealed ever since. If he doesn't know that, then clearly I've been doing a good job, as I'm on the stage playing guitar during worship and I'm in his home most of the rest of the afternoon usually. However, he's not the rule-maker for the church. That responsibility mostly falls upon some of the elder leadership. I don't know how much they consider guns in church as a possibility or as something that actually happens. However, I'd guess that there's at least one or two others who routinely are armed on Sundays.

I'm glad to read the responses in this thread. Because I am afraid that my church may not be ready for someone to open carry, and if nobody has talked about it yet, then we probably need to be talking to the ushers and elders.

There are definitely many people in my church (and in any congregation I'm certain) who would explicitly object to allowing guns in church. I'm considering talking to my FIL about open carry. I honestly don't think that my church has considered how to respond if someone open carries on a Sunday morning, and I am fearful that the response could be bad if some of the folks don't start talking about what to do.

might need to do something quick, you've got a week and a half.

[allisji]

Hopefully, someone doesn't decide to OC at our church on January 3. Because I'm out of town next week. But, I think the chances of it are slim on the first Sunday of the year.

My father-in-law is the pastor. He knows that I got my LTC, and I assume that he knows that I've been carrying concealed ever since. If he doesn't know that, then clearly I've been doing a good job, as I'm on the stage playing guitar during worship and I'm in his home most of the rest of the afternoon usually. However, he's not the rule-maker for the church. That responsibility mostly falls upon some of the elder leadership. I don't know how much they consider guns in church as a possibility or as something that actually happens. However, I'd guess that there's at least one or two others who routinely are armed on Sundays.

I'm glad to read the responses in this thread. Because I am afraid that my church may not be ready for someone to open carry, and if nobody has talked about it yet, then we probably need to be talking to the ushers and elders.

There are definitely many people in my church (and in any congregation I'm certain) who would explicitly object to allowing guns in church. I'm considering talking to my FIL about open carry. I honestly don't think that my church has considered how to respond if someone open carries on a Sunday morning, and I am fearful that the response could be bad if some of the folks don't start talking about what to do.

might need to do something quick, you've got a week and a half.

[Smokey]

There was a posting in the bulletin today at church asking people to not openly carry handguns. Also it said they will be providing notice "orally and through a written card as needed."

[drjoker]

That's a very good quote.

... so that the audience's attention is on Christ ...

Concerning carrying openly in church, the principle I follow is 1 Corinthian 8:8 "Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak." (Read chapters 8 and 9 concerning freedom.)

As a rule, I'll OC outside of the sanctuary and don my suit coat before entering the sanctuary so as not become a stumbling block (distraction). As I always have, I'll OC where I can, conceal as the situation dictates, and disarm only if I must. YMMV.

[The Annoyed Man]

As of this morning, there has been no public announcement yet at my church about policy, and there are no signs up yet, but I had a kind of disturbing exchange of emails today with the ministry lead person in our chapter of Celebrate Recovery, of which I am the worship leader.

Another person in our chapter's leadership who attends church somewhere else sent out an email to the rest of the leadership team asking what my church's policy was going to be on open carry come 1/1. I replied-to-all for informational purposes with a direct quote of the pertinent law from 46.035 (a), (b)(6), and (i), and explained the "effective notice" requirements and how other churches seemed to be handling the issue. (No, I did NOT educate anyone about what a compliant sign is, I merely said it had to be compliant.) I said that I didn't know what my church's official response is yet, but that I wouldn't be surprised if it ended up being along the same lines as some have described here in their churches - i.e. no signage, but ushers or other staff authorized to give verbal effective notice when they see OC. I did suggest that might be a good way to handle it ourselves.

Our CR ministry lead person responded pretty heatedly to my email, saying that: [a] he had very strong feelings about it; that he thought carrying would jeopardize safety in the group; [c] that he thought there should be a written policy against it; [d] that if people are put off by this policy he would invite them to find another CR group to join; [e] that if our church doesn't ban carrying, he would immediately resign from our CR and leave our church because he doesn't trust people with guns any more than he trusts any other addict; and that [f] he had taken his concerns to the church leadership.

It was a very non-linear and emotional response [not to mention the bit about not trusting people with guns any more than he trusts an addict]. He was so upset by the idea of it that I think he conflated OC with CC, possibly without intending to. But it seems strange to me that he would threaten to leave the church without having even considered that people have been carrying concealed at that church for years, quite legally, and nobody has ever behaved in a threatening manner toward him.....or anybody else, for that matter.

Obviously, I did not reply that I have had a gun on me every single time we've ever seen each other, including when I'm on stage leading worship.

Anyway, I'm sure his outburst will have some kind of fallout. It may get interesting. I doubt that my church will ban concealed carry, but they may well post 30.07. As far as I am concerned, I have no plan to OC, so such a sign won't affect me. But if the fallout is that an exception is made for CR and they post the only two entrances to that part of the building with both 30.06 and 30.07, then I will probably quit CR and find a chapter elsewhere led by someone without such strong feelings in the matter. Our meeting is on Monday nights, and I'm not usually out of there until around 9:30 pm.....sometimes later. I'm usually one of the last to leave, and it's a lonely place that late on a Monday night, not all that well lit, and with plenty of places that could conceal a bad person with evil on his mind.

We'll see.

[The Annoyed Man]

Follow up.......

The email subject referenced above is "CR - Open Carry Starts January 1"

I just got the response from the ministry lead again:

Church policy is this is forbidden at all [church] activities and signs will be posted in the next week

Just confirmed with [church] leadership
FYI

I hope they are referring to OC only. Otherwise, I've got a major decision to make.

[Oldgringo]

Follow up.......

The email subject referenced above is "CR - Open Carry Starts January 1"

I just got the response from the ministry lead again:

Church policy is this is forbidden at all [church] activities and signs will be posted in the next week

Just confirmed with [church] leadership
FYI

I hope they are referring to OC only. Otherwise, I've got a major decision to make.

Best wishes! I'd be really surprised if our small town FUMC follows formal FUMC policy but should it happen, there will be seating available for two, three rows up, on the right side of the sanctuary nearest the choir.

[C-dub]

Still nothing at my church and I haven't noticed anything in the bulletin yet nor heard one word about it from any other friends in moderately high to high places. However, I haven't asked either because most of them don't know I even have a CHL. Many know of my interest in shooting because I've discussed it with them and invited several to go shooting and bring their daughters along with me and mine. I'll just wait and see this Sunday. I'll still be CCing, but will keep an eye out for signage or other types of notification.

[Rhino1]

Moved to this area earlier this year. Still looking for a church. Found a large one we liked in New Braunfels that we visited several times. Imagine my surprise when a casual search of Texas3006 revealed that they were posted. The signs are correct wording but posted at the entries to each parking lot. That is why I didn't see them. I realize they aren't legal but chose to keep looking. Thought they were a conservative, Biblically based church but made me wonder if this liberal view on CC might carry over to their doctrine. I have never seen any church before that was posted. The pastor at my old church (8000 weekly attendance across 3 campuses) offered a CHL class for anyone on the church staff that wanted to get a CHL. I am ambivalent about 3007 as I prefer to keep it concealed but 3006 is a show stopper for me.

[C-dub]

Moved to this area earlier this year. Still looking for a church. Found a large one we liked in New Braunfels that we visited several times. Imagine my surprise when a casual search of Texas3006 revealed that they were posted. The signs are correct wording but posted at the entries to each parking lot. That is why I didn't see them. I realize they aren't legal but chose to keep looking. Thought they were a conservative, Biblically based church but made me wonder if this liberal view on CC might carry over to their doctrine. I have never seen any church before that was posted. The pastor at my old church (8000 weekly attendance across 3 campuses) offered a CHL class for anyone on the church staff that wanted to get a CHL. I am ambivalent about 3007 as I prefer to keep it concealed but 3006 is a show stopper for me.

Why aren't they legal?

[The Annoyed Man]

I suspect that he means "compliant".

[C-dub]

I suspect that he means "compliant".

Probably, but he said the wording was correct. Maybe it had to do with the size.

[oljames3]

... I hope they are referring to OC only. Otherwise, I've got a major decision to make.

Agreed. When the Governor signed HB910, my wife and I sought out our assistant pastor, an NRA member and CHL holder, to discuss the churches intent. No signs, just verbal or written communication to dissuade open carry in the sanctuary. So, come 1/2/16, I'll be carrying my Tanfoglio BTA90 in a paddle restraint holster at 3 o'clock. I'll doff my suit coat at will outside the sanctuary, but stay covered when in the sanctuary. We will see how it goes.
1 Corinthians 8-10