txglock21 wrote:Let me throw another wrinkle into this...What if you are HALFWAY through eating your meal and are told to leave now? Would you get up and walk out without paying OR ask for a "doggy bag" and stay long enough to pay the check? I was taught stealing is wrong, but if they wouldn't let me finish what I was paying for, I feel I don't need to pay for something I was "promised". And, yes, I realize that most likely you will be asked to leave before it gets to that point. Just food for thought. Pardon the semi-pun.
Go to your vehicle ...........disarm .........return and enjoy your meal .
casp625 wrote:Mojo, my comment wasn't directed at you but through various comments I've read throughout other threads. Then again, maybe I just inferred comments from other threads incorrectly.
I understand.
People need to realize if there is disagreement between a manager and an employee, that is between them. The manager trumps the employee. Nonetheless, an employee has apparent authority until overridden by a superior. The perceived confusion on the stream was really due more to a lack of understanding what was being asked and the silliness of the premise of the question than anything else. The scenario that was posed was what if a waiter told someone to leave and a manager said the person didn't have to. The chief said they would probably be called to help sort it out. That doesn't mean anyone thought the waiter could make policy or override the manager.
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txglock21 wrote:Let me throw another wrinkle into this...What if you are HALFWAY through eating your meal and are told to leave now? Would you get up and walk out without paying OR ask for a "doggy bag" and stay long enough to pay the check? I was taught stealing is wrong, but if they wouldn't let me finish what I was paying for, I feel I don't need to pay for something I was "promised". And, yes, I realize that most likely you will be asked to leave before it gets to that point. Just food for thought. Pardon the semi-pun.
Go to your vehicle ...........disarm .........return and enjoy your meal .
One could also just let the waiter know you don't believe you should have to pay and then leave.
Or, one could say, what if I untuck my shirt and conceal my weapon. Would that suffice?
I'm sure there are other valid options not mentioned.
Last edited by mojo84 on Tue Dec 22, 2015 7:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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txglock21 wrote:Let me throw another wrinkle into this...What if you are HALFWAY through eating your meal and are told to leave now? Would you get up and walk out without paying OR ask for a "doggy bag" and stay long enough to pay the check? I was taught stealing is wrong, but if they wouldn't let me finish what I was paying for, I feel I don't need to pay for something I was "promised". And, yes, I realize that most likely you will be asked to leave before it gets to that point. Just food for thought. Pardon the semi-pun.
Go to your vehicle ...........disarm .........return and enjoy your meal .
That seems to be high risk for losing your weapon given that anyone within earshot inside knew you had a gun and were asked to remove it. So they know that it's out there in your car.
NRA Life Member
My State Rep Hubert won't tell me his position on HB560. How about yours?
txglock21 wrote:Let me throw another wrinkle into this...What if you are HALFWAY through eating your meal and are told to leave now? Would you get up and walk out without paying OR ask for a "doggy bag" and stay long enough to pay the check? I was taught stealing is wrong, but if they wouldn't let me finish what I was paying for, I feel I don't need to pay for something I was "promised". And, yes, I realize that most likely you will be asked to leave before it gets to that point. Just food for thought. Pardon the semi-pun.
Go to your vehicle ...........disarm .........return and enjoy your meal .
One could also just let the waiter know you don't believe you should have to pay and then leave.
Or, one could say, what if I untuck my shirt and conceal my weapon. Would that suffice?
I'm sure there are other valid options not mentioned.
The untucking of the shirt is a good idea, and one used in Virginia so often it was referred to as the Virginia Tuck. Used for arriving at any place that didn't allow open carry. Of course there also was the reverse process for when it was concealed but had to be OC to be in places that served alcohol (they don't have bars in Virginia).
NRA Life Member
My State Rep Hubert won't tell me his position on HB560. How about yours?
Can the busboy tell you to leave? Hostess? Flower girl? This is why 30.07 should be used in those places that don't want open carry.
“Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference in the world. But, an American Soldier doesn't have that problem". — President Ronald Reagan, 1985
stingeragent wrote:I definitely agree with you. Unless they post their policy somewhere there is 100% no way to know. A waiter could have been informed by the owner to tell open carriers to leave. That would be justified. At the same time though, you may have a waiter that is a member of MDA that sees your gun and tells you to leave even though the owner is pro gun which is why they aren't posted 30.07. Ultimately though none of it matters. I think the vast majority of stores have the policy regardless of if you have a gun or not, if they ask you to leave the premises, you are required to. The whole we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. I for one am not gonna stay and argue, carrying or not, either way.
Edit: I honestly think it would be better if there was no oral notice. Should be you post the signs or you don't. That would get rid of the gray area in that aspect of it. A lot of this is just blown out of proportion a bit though I think. I would "assume" in most instances, if this issue came up the waiter, or whoever would go notify their manager who would then deal with it.
Ok, I missed the waiter and manager disagreement part. The waiter doesn't over rule the manager. But if the manager supports the waiter, get ready for a ride...
They should just get rid of the 30.06 and 30.07 signs minus the prohibited places. If a business owner doesn't like firearms, so what. They are prohibiting me the right to defend myself against a criminal that could come in with a firearm that doesn't care about their signs. Even if I wasn't pro gun, I would never understand how people think that a sign on the window saying don't bring your guns in here, is going to prevent a crime with a gun from taking place. I would conclude there hasn't been a gun toting robber in the history of the earth that saw a no gun sign and turned around and decided to rob a place without a sign. I mean seriously, say that out loud. How can anyone that is not mentally insane not understand that regardless of if they love guns or hate them.
stingeragent wrote:They should just get rid of the 30.06 and 30.07 signs minus the prohibited places. If a business owner doesn't like firearms, so what. They are prohibiting me the right to defend myself against a criminal that could come in with a firearm that doesn't care about their signs. Even if I wasn't pro gun, I would never understand how people think that a sign on the window saying don't bring your guns in here, is going to prevent a crime with a gun from taking place. I would conclude there hasn't been a gun toting robber in the history of the earth that saw a no gun sign and turned around and decided to rob a place without a sign. I mean seriously, say that out loud. How can anyone that is not mentally insane not understand that regardless of if they love guns or hate them.
No, they are not preventing you from defending yourself.
I do agree that a criminal isn't going to obey a sign.
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How so? If both signs are posted I legally can't carry there. A criminal however doesn't care, so they can and will bring a firearm. I'm aware of the tueller drills but I'd rather defend firearm against firearm.
stingeragent wrote:How so? If both signs are posted I legally can't carry there. A criminal however doesn't care, so they can and will bring a firearm. I'm aware of the tueller drills but I'd rather defend firearm against firearm.
You don't have to go in.
There are other methods of defending yourself.
They are not preventing you from defending yourself. They are limiting how you can defend yourself if you see The signs, obey the signs and choose to enter anyway.
Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.
stingeragent wrote:How so? If both signs are posted I legally can't carry there. A criminal however doesn't care, so they can and will bring a firearm. I'm aware of the tueller drills but I'd rather defend firearm against firearm.
I disagree with the assertion that a business posting a 30.06/30.07 is interfering with your right to self defense with a firearm. You have the power of decision on whether or not you enter that establishment unarmed in compliance with the law, and you have the power of choosing to go somewhere else that's not posted. I don't like to see 30.06's, but I also respect the rights of others. It's rare that I run across a 30.06, and even more rare that I can't find what I need where not posted. Just not worth my emotional equity to get worked up over it.
ETA: Just to make it clear, I'm NOT advocating blowing off 30.06/30.07's & entering anyway. I'm saying what Mojo beat me to above...
