Texans Respond to License to Carry

[oljames3]

Texas’ open carry handgun law is effective Jan. 1, 2016 - what does this mean for banks?
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail. ... a6cbdb9263

Smith County Sheriff's Office to hold additional open carry training class
http://www.newswest9.com/story/30692783 ... y-training

Austin police talk ‘open carry’ at safety commission
http://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/20 ... 0JZFh.dpuf

Texas State Law Library
http://guides.sll.texas.gov/gun-laws

University and College Officials’ Perceptions of Open Carry on College Campus
http://www.cjcj.org/uploads/cjcj/docume ... l_2015.pdf

Public safety commission hears updates on open carry, October floods response and mental health training
http://crime.blog.statesman.com/2015/12 ... -training/

KTXS: Abilene police to host Open Carry Forum Thursday
http://www.ktxs.com/news/abilene-police ... m/36838978

KXAN: City’s public safety commission addresses “Open Carry”
http://kxan.com/2015/12/07/citys-public ... pen-carry/

Amarillo Globe-News Editorial: More gun control is not the answer
http://amarillo.com/opinion/editorial/2 ... not-answer

[mojo84]

KXAN: City’s public safety commission addresses “Open Carry”
http://kxan.com/2015/12/07/citys-public ... pen-carry/

Some things in this article are somewhat concerning.

Different agencies within the same locale may have different protocols and directives based on different interpretations of the law and different attitudes of the top leadership in the various agencies. Contrary to what at least one former member believes, there is still question about what justifies lawful stop and demand for a license.

“I think different agencies, different prosecutors, have different ideas about exactly what authority police officers are going to have with regard to approaching someone who is openly carrying a firearm in a holster,” Texas Municipal Association Executive Director Kevin Lawrence said. “The question is, at what point can the officer insist that the individual actually display [the] license?”

Again, stop and interrogate someone for doing something legal? Rather than assume we are doing something that we have the right to do, they wanted us to have to have a license displayed. The requirements and issues weren't addressed in the law but they do indicate attitude and disposition.

To better ensure that situations “end well,” CLEAT pushed lawmakers to make three changes to the bill. The changes never made it into the final version, which became law.

“We expressed the concerns that we had. Are we going to be able to ask reasonable questions of someone openly carrying? Will their license be displayed on their person so an officer can see it and immediately be assured that… he has the perfect right to carry that gun openly?” Moritz explained, and finally, “Is there a restraint on his holster that would keep that gun in place?”

I haven't given this much thought until I read this. It appears stopping someone to verify they have an LTC may give rise to the opportunity for an officer to disarm a person. I believe it is implied an officer needs a justification to support him or her reasonably believing it necessary to disarm someone. In my mind, it is not appropriate for an officer to decide to disarm someone and then come up with a reason.

During Monday’s meeting, APD discussed how there are several factors to take into consideration if the need comes up to “disarm a person who is openly carrying based on the fact the officer ‘reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the license holder, officer, or another individual.'” Those include:

Reason for the stop
Backup present
Demeanor (e.g., hostile/agitated)
Type of holster (shoulder or belt)
Whether or not to handcuff the subject
Lethal Cover (e.g., hostile subject who is openly carrying)
Verbal Commands
Environment (e.g., crowded street or alley)
Return of the weapon after disarming if no arrest is warranted

I'm posting all this not to bash any officers or LEO's in general. I am posting it to point out there is going to be a period where we all are trying to find the equilibrium as we go through this change and the law takes effect. I pray cooler heads will prevail and that both the officers and open carriers handle things in a professional cordial manner.

I also, based on personal discussions I've had with top law enforcement officers in our area plus some comments I've seen, some departments and agencies will be more aggressive about checking and verifying those that carry are legally carrying because the top leadership in the organizations are wholeheartedly against the populace being able to open carry.

Hopefully those of us on here will set the proper tone when it comes to dealing with cops on this issue.

[Papa_Tiger]

OC will be STRONGLY discouraged in Austin.

All it takes is one person feeling uncomfortable and you will have an officer dispatched your way per this article:
http://www.austinmonitor.com/stories/20 ... 0JZFh.dpuf

A couple of good points though:
1) Dispatch will talk through the call and explain the law to the individual calling 911
2) “We’re not going to go up to every citizen and ask them for their handgun license. That would be unreasonable.” - Officer Michael Barker of the APD training department

A couple of points from the article to back up my assertion:
1) The police will dispatch an officer as long as the person (calling 911) expresses concern
2) Officers will expect you to show plastic at a mere ask (hooray erosion of the Fourth)
3) You don't show plastic, you are likely to take a ride
4) "Asked by Commissioner Michael Levy what he thought about open carry, Austin Police Association President Kenneth Casaday said, 'We did the best we could at the Legislature and weren’t happy with where it ended up.'" Implication being we don't like it, so we're going to make it as difficult as possible for those who choose to exercise their "newly enshrined right".

[oljames3]

Real Estate: Implications of Texas' Open Carry Law for Property Owners
http://images.jw.com/ealert/realestate/2015/120715.html

KUT.ORG: Austin Police Expect More Phone Calls When Open Carry Goes into Effect – A Lot More
http://kut.org/post/austin-police-expec ... t-lot-more

Plano Pawn Shop: JANUARY 1ST 2016 IS COMING! WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT TEXAS OPEN CARRY.
http://www.planopawnshop.net/blog/janua ... pen-carry/

TWC News: APD Plans for Open Carry
http://www.twcnews.com/tx/austin/news/2 ... arry-.html

[oljames3]

KIDY Abilene: Required Second Change to Open Carry Forum Location
http://www.myfoxzone.com/story/30700124 ... m-location

KENS San Antonio: City says businesses leasing public land can opt out of open carry
http://www.kens5.com/story/news/2015/12 ... /77022724/

JD Supra - Business Advisor: Implications of Texas' Open Carry Law for Property Owners
http://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/implic ... law-71279/

[mojo84]

KENS San Antonio: City says businesses leasing public land can opt out of open carry
http://www.kens5.com/story/news/2015/12 ... /77022724/
[/url]

More misinformation and/or intellectually dishonest interpretation of the law. It's been debated on here numerous times that it doesn't matter if the government entity is the landlord or tenant, the law still applies.

Seems like a lot a entities are setting themselves up to incur considerable legal fees and fines.

[oljames3]

Kilgore News Herald: Authories (sic) urge measured approach on 'open carry'
http://www.kilgorenewsherald.com/news/2 ... carry.html

Southeast Texas 12News:
Open Carry 101; Some of your questions answered
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/30699900/open-carry-101
Jefferson County commissioners table a vote on an order that will continue to prohibit firearms inside of courthouse
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/30690277 ... courthouse

Beaumont Enterprise EDITORIAL: Open-carry law meeting practical realities in public buildings
http://m.beaumontenterprise.com/opinion ... 684679.php

Brownsville Herald: Officers explain open carry law that takes effect Jan. 1
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/l ... 32b79.html

Harris County Constable: Texas Open Carry & Law Enforcement - 12/16/2015
http://www.cd4.hctx.net/training/courses.php

FoxRio2.com: Valley City Preps Residents for Texas ‘Open Carry’ Law (City of Donna)
https://www.foxrio2.com/valley-city-pre ... carry-law/

Austin American-Statesman: Police make changes in response to open carry law
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/lo ... ed-/npfTz/

Nederland Council discusses open carry law at meeting
http://www.panews.com/2015/12/08/nederl ... E3Uvg.dpuf

[Papa_Tiger]

Kilgore News Herald: Authories (sic) urge measured approach on 'open carry'
http://www.kilgorenewsherald.com/news/2 ... carry.html

Austin American-Statesman: Police make changes in response to open carry law
http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/lo ... ed-/npfTz/

The Kilgore News Herald fixed their typo and their link.

Kilgore News Herald: Authorities urge measured approach on 'open carry'
http://www.kilgorenewsherald.com/news/2 ... carry.html

Compare the difference between the two approaches in the two articles above. One assumes that people are law abiding citizens and urges reasonableness on both sides. One distrusts them and assumes the worst. Both police departments have consulted with their lawyers, read the same law and come to two different conclusions.

Yep, definitely going to take a legislative fix in 2017...

[bigity]

KCBD in Lubbock just ran a story about how the city is considering banning concealed carry (which is currently 'allowed') from city council meetings. I thought this was not something they could decide to do?

EDIT: Hm, maybe not.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

[sjfcontrol]

KCBD in Lubbock just ran a story about how the city is considering banning concealed carry (which is currently 'allowed') from city council meetings. I thought this was not something they could decide to do?

EDIT: Hm, maybe not.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

They just have to post 30.06 to prohibit concealed carry at gov. meetings.

[oljames3]

Fort Bend County: Open Carry meeting Dec. 16, Richmond
http://m.yourhoustonnews.com/fort_bend/ ... l?mode=jqm

12 News Now -Beaumont: Open Carry 101; Some of your questions answered
http://www.12newsnow.com/story/30699900/open-carry-101

LUBBOCK, TX (KCBD) - Signmakers preparing for new Texas Open Carry law, in effect Jan. 1
http://m.kcbd.com/kcbd/db_344835/conten ... d=IUKu81Xf

ValleyCentral.com: Firearms instructor explains new Texas 'open carry' law
http://valleycentral.com/news/local/fir ... -carry-law

Business Owners, Police Departments Prepare for Open Carry | KRGV.com Mobile
http://m.krgv.com/news/Business-Owners- ... y/36886066

University of Texas could allow concealed handguns in class | Latest News - KTXS Home
http://m.ktxs.com/news/university-of-te ... s/36895158

Abilene PD Video (2 hours): Open forum on open carry: Abilene police answer questions
http://www.ktxs.com/news/open-forum-on- ... s/36906278

UT-Austin campus carry panel: Guns can't be banned in classrooms - Houston Chronicle
http://m.chron.com/local/education/camp ... 688949.php

Open Carry Educational Session To Be Held Next Week In Ft. Bend County - Covering Katy
http://coveringkaty.com/2015/12/09/open ... next-week/

KLTV: Longview city council preparing employees for open carry
http://m.kltv.com/kltv/db_330566/conten ... d=hwPBsfrp

UTSA Task Force Presents Open Carry Recommendations | Texas Public Radio
http://tpr.org/post/utsa-task-force-pre ... mendations

DeSoto to address Texas Open Carry legislation
http://focusdailynews.com/desoto-to-add ... 6426-1.htm

Watch "Texas Open Carry Law Seminar 12-01-2015" on YouTube
https://youtu.be/Y0YAYrVzcsE

[oljames3]

Austin Community college: TEXAS’ OPEN CARRY LAW AND CONCEALED CARRY LAW
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-EwSa ... view?pli=1

The Galveston County Post: Police to hold public forum on state’s new gun law
http://thepostnewspaper.net/2015/12/12/open-meeting/

Elgin, Texas: Open Carry Gun Law - How Businesses can Comply, Wednesday, December 16
http://www.elgintx.com/Calendar.aspx?EI ... &calType=0

League City police to host public meeting on new open carry legislation
http://www.yourhoustonnews.com/bay_area ... 34ac5.html

KENS5: Businesses split as 'open carry' approaches
http://www.kens5.com/media/cinematic/vi ... pproaches/

San Angelo PD Chief Discusses Open Carry
http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/local-n ... s_85109398

[oljames3]

First Time at a Gun Show
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/14/opini ... .html?_r=0

Understanding Texas' New "Open Carry" Gun Law - The Dallas Morning Post
http://www.dallasmorningpost.com/2015/1 ... y-gun-law/

Link to Abilene PD OC Presentation
http://www.ktxs.com/news/open-forum-on- ... s/36906278

Marshall ISD considers signs to exclude open carry from all schools - Marshall News Messenger
http://www.marshallnewsmessenger.com/ne ... pen-carry/

KIDY News: Gun Owners Remain Divided on Open Carry
http://www.myfoxzone.com/story/30720456 ... open-carry

DFW Business News: Here’s What You Should Know About Open Carry Before Jan. 1 - Property Management
https://www.bisnow.com/dallas-ft-worth/ ... ners-53527

Can You Prohibit "Open Carry"? - WhitneySmith Company
http://whitneysmithco.com/open-carry/

Ft Worth Star-Telegram: "Cynthia M. Allen: Please, please convince me gun control will work"
http://m.heraldextra.com/news/opinion/n ... touch=true

[oljames3]

Texas Rural New:
Open Carry... Businesses have to decide!
http://texasruralnews.com/open-carry-bu ... 70-105.htm
School districts seek clarity on open carry law...
http://texasruralnews.com/mdetail.asp?h ... 68-105.htm

TexomasHomepage.com: New Texas Gun Law Brings Big Changes, Some Confusion
http://www.texomashomepage.com/news/loc ... -confusion

Tyler Morning Telegraph: Why debate on guns never goes anywhere
http://www.tylerpaper.com/TP-Editorials ... s-anywhere

myeasttexas.com:
Gregg Co. commissioners vote against open carry at county locations
http://www.myeasttex.com/news/local-new ... -locations
Smith Co. sheriff clarifies stance on concealed, open carry
http://www.myeasttex.com/news/local-new ... open-carry

Texas’ 30.07 “Open Carry Prohibited” Signs Now in Production - OmniFeed
http://omnifeed.com/article/www.thetrut ... pen-carry/

County addressing effects of open carry law - News - Houston Community Newspapers
http://m.yourhoustonnews.com/courier/ne ... l?mode=jqm

Businesses, churches must decide on open carry in Texas - Longview News-Journal
http://www.news-journal.com/news/2015/d ... arry-in-t/

Law enforcement set open carry classes in East Texas - Longview News-Journal - Longview
https://us-mg5.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launc ... 8777828848

[oljames3]

OP supposedly used Facebook to contact 45 businesses in Houston. Obviously, the list is statistically insignificant and cherry-picked.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... li=1#gid=0

Students for Concealed Carry: Further Analysis of UT-Austin’s Campus Carry Recommendations
http://concealedcampus.org/2015/12/furt ... #more-1618

APD training for open carry law - Story | KTBC
http://www.fox7austin.com/news/local-ne ... 4309-story

Transit Agency Drafts Guidelines On Open Carry – Houston Public Media
http://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/artic ... pen-carry/

Countdown to Open Carry in Texas - Story | The High Plains
http://www.myhighplains.com/news/countd ... y-in-texas

Daily KOS: Gunsmoked or would you like to play a game? A realistic preview of open carry in Texas.
https://m.dailykos.com/story/2015/12/14 ... y-in-Texas