Ruger 1911 Commander .45 Problem

[Excaliber]

- Double feed

Double live rounds feeding, or is one a fired case? I'm suspecting you mean live, but I'd like to be sure.

Either way, based on the other symptoms the extractor is the primary culprit - it either has too little tension, is mis-shaped or is 'clocking'. Strip the slide and slip a live cartridge under the extractor to test - you know the drill.

In addition to that, I believe your magazine is losing control of the rounds - you're experiencing what sounds suspiciously like inertia-feeding as the case-rim is getting ahead of the extractor instead of feeding cleanly upwards into it, so you either have a weak magazine spring which can't keep the round in place under recoil, slippery magazine-lips - or, at worst, bent/spread magazine-lips.

Also, look at the recoil-spring - an undersprung pistol's slide can bang into the frame, jolting a round forward from a weakly-sprung magazine's lips - and an oversprung one can outrun the magazine's ability to get a fresh round up in time, but I doubt this latter is your issue.

Edit: I can't even try and help with Bill's issue until he gives more details of what the issue actually looks like inside his ejection-port; it may even be an improperly-seated magazine for all I can tell.

Andy, I should have provided more detail - here we go:

The double feed was with two live rounds.

I don't think it's the magazine because I got the same results with the Ruger mags that came with the gun and with two known good Wilson Combat mags that work just fine in all my other 1911's.

I did remove and examine the extractor - no visible issues other than brass marking on the extractor nose. I tested the extractor tension with a tension feeler gauge and a trigger pull gauge - 22 oz. on the nose with repeated tests

I doubt it is undersprung - the recoil spring feels like it provides more resistance to cycling than the springs on my other pistols. I'm wondering if it may be over sprung, but I don't have any other calibrated springs to test with. That would be my next DIY test, but I'll have to order some from Brownell's.

Any other thoughts?

[Excaliber]

Thanks for replies Guys!

More detail:

1. Previously, each round picked up correctly. This time, 1st round that was in battery fired and then next round wouldn't pick up.
2. Only using quality ammo: Hornady, Remington, etc.
3. Magazine springs strong; round fully at top waiting to be picked up.
4. Manual cycling of slide fails to pick up round (in either of my 3 new RUGER magazines.
5. Once fired, pistol has never failed to extract round and toss it out.
6. Have never had a Stove Pipe incident.
7. Magazine fully in position and locked.
8. Pistol has not been cleaned since it has been "resting" past several months.
9. No "limp wrist" incidents.
10. Neither hollowpoint or ball ammo would cycle in. No case damage observed.

Hope this info helps!

Thanks,
Bill

You'll want to rule in or rule out magazines as the culprit. If that's the issue, it's a really simple fix.

I suggest trying to manually cycle rounds from a Wilson Combat or similar top quality magazine. If that works, the Ruger mags are the problem. If that doesn't work, the gun is almost certainly the problem.

[Pawpaw]

Bill, You don't have a shock buffer installed in that pistol, do you?

[MONGOOSE]

If this pistol will every be used for SD, you need to send it to Ruger or a competent Smith and quit trying speculating and trying to be a kitchen table smith.

Many 1911 issues are easily-resolved without the use of a 'smith, so how about you mind your business and quit pontificating as you seem to do so fondly?

I asked if this would be a SD weapon. If so how arragont of you to take someone' life in your hands by trying to diagnose and repair a problem over the Internet. You have no idea of this gentleman's mechanical aptitude or skills.

[dlh]

Each shooter's skill level is different---both in shooting and in knowing how to break down the weapons he is shooting. I consider myself a fairly good shooter but was quite intimidated in dis-assemblying my Springfield G.I. 1911. I took the plunge, reviewed some excellent youtube videos on the subject, and with lots of practice I can now take down my 1911 in my sleep. Same with my AR-15, my AK-47, and my Ruger Mini-30 Ranch Rifle.

I know guys who put together firearms from kits (they follow the law of course). I do not have the skill level to put together a firearm from a kit. That might be my next project. :)

The problems I had with my 1911 were either magazine-related or cleaning/lubrication related. The Wilson Combat magazines I purchased for my 1911 are far superior to the factory magazine Springfield provided and using those minimized the failure to feed/eject issues I had at the time.

If the OP does not feel comfortable breaking down his 1911 then he should send it to Ruger or to a gunsmith for a check. But I say take the plunge as it is part of the fun!

dlh

[Taypo]

If this pistol will every be used for SD, you need to send it to Ruger or a competent Smith and quit trying speculating and trying to be a kitchen table smith.

Many 1911 issues are easily-resolved without the use of a 'smith, so how about you mind your business and quit pontificating as you seem to do so fondly?

I asked if this would be a SD weapon. If so how arragont of you to take someone' life in your hands by trying to diagnose and repair a problem over the Internet. You have no idea of this gentleman's mechanical aptitude or skills.

Lost that dang popcorn smilie again.

[MONGOOSE]

Oh I'm out. I don't want to pontificate to anyone.

[Keith B]

Alright folks, if you can't be civil then just shut up and move on.

[DocV]

I admit this is a bit of a puzzling failure mode. My initial suspect for feed problems is always the magazine. Given none of the three magazines would feed, that would imply that all three magazines are failing; or, the magazines are not seated properly; or, the disconnector track is not stripping a round out of the mag for some reason.

Can you answer a few questions for me please?

1. Has this problem repeated for each of the mags? In particular, can you load the first round in the pistol, shoot the round, and does additional rounds fail to load?

2. Does failure to load mean the rounds just stay in the mag? If not, where are the rounds after the first round is fired?

3. Have you tried the traditional tap and rack procedure for a FTF? Did that help?

[ghostrider]

Are the magazines you've tried all 8 round? Do you have 7 round magazine to try?
(I don't own a Ruger 1911, so I don't know what capacity or who makes the factory mags).

[Excaliber]

Andy, I should have provided more detail - here we go:

The double feed was with two live rounds.

Cool, as I suspected - had to make sure.

I don't think it's the magazine because I got the same results with the Ruger mags that came with the gun and with two known good Wilson Combat mags that work just fine in all my other 1911's.

Sure, but those are still different pistols and this one might be a hair enough off of the spec that's required for it to work with this pistol - just an option, although unlikely.

Let's assume, however, that your mags are fine - have you perhaps cleaned and/or lubed your mags recently? Make sure the insides of the feedlips are dry as a bone, because 2 live rounds means that one of them is escaping the magazine - and that's weak spring + inertia. Slap the front of a loaded mag lightly against the heel of your hand - does the top round slide easily?

Another question - how soon in the emptying of the mag did the double-feed occur? The very first 2 rounds, the last 2... ?

I did remove and examine the extractor - no visible issues other than brass marking on the extractor nose. I tested the extractor tension with a tension feeler gauge and a trigger pull gauge - 22 oz. on the nose with repeated tests

Ok, but did you check for clocking (caused by an ill-fitting firing-pin stop which allows the extractor to rotate in its tunnel) and did you try the test to actually hold a live cartridge in place? Each gun is different, no matter what the book says the spec *should* be, as you know.

I doubt it is undersprung - the recoil spring feels like it provides more resistance to cycling than the springs on my other pistols. I'm wondering if it may be over sprung, but I don't have any other calibrated springs to test with. That would be my next DIY test, but I'll have to order some from Brownell's.

Any other thoughts?

Not yet but I'm at work analyzing something else - I'll bend my brain a bit more later. I forgot to ask - what style of bullet are you using, and are the magazine feedlips Wadcutter, GI or Hybrid style? (thinking early release, etc...

Andy,

Thanks for wracking your brain on this one along with me.

The issues occurred with Winchester Ranger hollowpoints and Federal 230 grain FMJ range ammo.

The double feed happened mid magazine. The loose round in the ejection port was the last round in the magazine.

The mags are clean and dry - I'm religious about that. Spring tension is also strong.

I didn't check for clocking, but I have never seen the extractor out of its proper orientation - including when I could clearly see the extractor cut behind the base of the casing on the failure to go into battery incident.

I'm traveling at the moment, but my recollection is that the Ruger mags and the Wilsons are all hybrid in the feed lips. I'll have to verify that when I get home at the end of the week.

I'm thinking this is something to do with the gun itself - but what?

I plan to call Ruger today and brainstorm with them. I'll let you know what they say.

Edit: Ruger said send it in. I'll let you know what they say.

[Countryside]

My new Ruger Commander Night Watchman failed to feed the first round I tried to chamber in it. I understand the so-called "break in" period, but if a gun consistently fails to feed then there is a problem. This one was failing to feed badly. I called Ruger and they told me to send it in to them. When I got it back the repair notes said they had "repaired the extractor." It was rather clear they didn't do anything else. It would still fail to feed some but not as bad as it did. The gun is currently with my gun smith getting some fine tuning done.