new laws...so what's changed?

[ferguson]

I'm having a hard time finding real facts about what the new laws on Jan 1st will mean for CHL holders so I thought I'd post them and see if others have answers...or more questions. Here's what I got -

1) I heard that penalties for violating 30.06 are being reduced and it is no longer a misdemeanor - if you are discovered the property representative can ask you to leave, and if you don't THEN you're trespassing. The penalty is a small civil fine.

2) a business now has to post TWO properly formatted signs (in English and Spanish) to keep out all gun owners, a 30.06 sign AND a 30.07 sign.

3) You can open carry in an establishment with a 30.06 sign and no 30.07 sign.

4) since the law detailing 30.06 signage is very specific, "OLD" 30.06 signs become invalid on Jan 1st as they refer to a "Concealed Handgun License" rather than "License to Carry", which renders all existing 30.06 signs "improper" and property owners must update their signs to remain valid.

5) I know Open Carry specifies a belt or shoulder holster, is there a retention requirement?

[Abraham]

Your forum name is quite unconventional, and if let to stand, I'll be changing mine...

[Javier730]

Your forum name is quite unconventional, and if let to stand, I'll be changing mine...

He explains where the name is from here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71427&p=891656#p891656

In re: the OP's screen name....

thug_ferguson
thug _ferguson

Interesting.... The site censor doesn't censor bad words that are connected by an "_" to other words. But put a space in front of the "_", and you get the censor kicking in.

Just sayin'........

Oh, and welcome to the forum, uh....... Mr. Ferguson.

...it's a character from an old comedy bit.

[The Annoyed Man]

Your forum name is quite unconventional, and if let to stand, I'll be changing mine...

He explains where the name is from here viewtopic.php?f=7&t=71427&p=891656#p891656

In re: the OP's screen name....

thug_ferguson
thug _ferguson

Interesting.... The site censor doesn't censor bad words that are connected by an "_" to other words. But put a space in front of the "_", and you get the censor kicking in.

Just sayin'........

Oh, and welcome to the forum, uh....... Mr. Ferguson.

...it's a character from an old comedy bit.

Origins of the joke

[SHogun62]

This will probably seem like a stupid question, so I apologize in advance. Regarding number 5, about the holster system, I read over the new law myself, and either I missed it, or it isn't clarified, but does "on a belt" mean a holster that sits at belt level, or anything is acceptable so long as it attaches to a belt, such as a Drop Leg ("thigh rig") platform?

As far as I can tell, there is no requirement for a retention system on the holster other than the wearer's ability to protect, and properly draw the weapon if needed.

[oohrah]

#1. It is now a Class C misdemeanor, downgraded from a Class A. If you refuse to leave when asked, then it becomes a Class A offense.

#5. no retention requirements on the holster, but Instructors now have to teach retention (is my understanding)

[The Annoyed Man]

I'm having a hard time finding real facts about what the new laws on Jan 1st will mean for CHL holders so I thought I'd post them and see if others have answers...or more questions. Here's what I got -

1) I heard that penalties for violating 30.06 are being reduced and it is no longer a misdemeanor - if you are discovered the property representative can ask you to leave, and if you don't THEN you're trespassing. The penalty is a small civil fine. You're still trespassing, but it is only a Class C misdemeanor, which gets upgraded to Class A if you refuse to leave.

2) a business now has to post TWO properly formatted signs (in English and Spanish) to keep out all gun owners, a 30.06 sign AND a 30.07 sign. Not exactly. You can still own a gun and walk into these establishments, but you can't carry it into these establishments. Otherwise, you are correct about the signage.

3) You can open carry in an establishment with a 30.06 sign and no 30.07 sign. Yes, that is true. It is almost certainly going to result in the posting of a 30.07, since the establishment owner cared enough to post a valid 30.06 sign in the first place.

4) since the law detailing 30.06 signage is very specific, "OLD" 30.06 signs become invalid on Jan 1st as they refer to a "Concealed Handgun License" rather than "License to Carry", which renders all existing 30.06 signs "improper" and property owners must update their signs to remain valid. That is true.

5) I know Open Carry specifies a belt or shoulder holster, is there a retention requirement? No. The belt or shoulder holster counts as "retention" by itself. No additional level of retention is required. Until further clarified, paddle holsters on the belt do not qualify, with or without a retention device.

[Jago668]

Not doubting you TAM, just curious why a paddle holster on the belt doesn't qualify? I'm carrying IWB concealed and have no intention of changing. Just a case of curiosity.

[Glockster]

I'm having a hard time finding real facts about what the new laws on Jan 1st will mean for CHL holders so I thought I'd post them and see if others have answers...or more questions. Here's what I got -

1) I heard that penalties for violating 30.06 are being reduced and it is no longer a misdemeanor - if you are discovered the property representative can ask you to leave, and if you don't THEN you're trespassing. The penalty is a small civil fine. You're still trespassing, but it is only a Class C misdemeanor, which gets upgraded to Class A if you refuse to leave.

2) a business now has to post TWO properly formatted signs (in English and Spanish) to keep out all gun owners, a 30.06 sign AND a 30.07 sign. Not exactly. You can still own a gun and walk into these establishments, but you can't carry it into these establishments. Otherwise, you are correct about the signage.

3) You can open carry in an establishment with a 30.06 sign and no 30.07 sign. Yes, that is true. It is almost certainly going to result in the posting of a 30.07, since the establishment owner cared enough to post a valid 30.06 sign in the first place.

4) since the law detailing 30.06 signage is very specific, "OLD" 30.06 signs become invalid on Jan 1st as they refer to a "Concealed Handgun License" rather than "License to Carry", which renders all existing 30.06 signs "improper" and property owners must update their signs to remain valid. That is true.

5) I know Open Carry specifies a belt or shoulder holster, is there a retention requirement? No. The belt or shoulder holster counts as "retention" by itself. No additional level of retention is required. Until further clarified, paddle holsters on the belt do not qualify, with or without a retention device.

Regarding #5, to clarify, that is your opinion only as there is nothing in the law to indicate that a paddle holster which attaches to a belt is any less a belt holster than any other type of belt holster. There is within the new law nothing to define or further clarify the definition of a belt holster. This has been discussed, I believe, almost endlessly during the legislative season.

[The Annoyed Man]

5) I know Open Carry specifies a belt or shoulder holster, is there a retention requirement? No. The belt or shoulder holster counts as "retention" by itself. No additional level of retention is required. Until further clarified, paddle holsters on the belt do not qualify, with or without a retention device.

Regarding #5, to clarify, that is your opinion only as there is nothing in the law to indicate that a paddle holster which attaches to a belt is any less a belt holster than any other type of belt holster. There is within the new law nothing to define or further clarify the definition of a belt holster. This has been discussed, I believe, almost endlessly during the legislative season.

You're right in that the law does not specifically exclude paddle holsters, but the opinion concerning them is not mine alone. Believe me....I WANT paddle holsters to be legal under the law, as I have one I'd like to use on occasion (which happens to include a retention device). But it also seems to be the consensus opinion among a lot of instructors on this board that paddle holsters do not conform to the law because they do not hang on/attach to the belt. They hang on the waistband....which may or may not include a belt. But no OWB belt holster I am aware of is going to stay attached to your pants without a belt. I actually find the distinction curious, because my paddle holster is almost impossible to remove.....it's never going to get swiped off of my person.

I asked the question about whether or not DPS had issued any clarifying guidelines regarding paddles in this thread posted by someone who just took the instructor's course: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=79562#p1011387. The answer is that this was not covered in the August instructors class.

[Glockster]

5) I know Open Carry specifies a belt or shoulder holster, is there a retention requirement? No. The belt or shoulder holster counts as "retention" by itself. No additional level of retention is required. Until further clarified, paddle holsters on the belt do not qualify, with or without a retention device.

Regarding #5, to clarify, that is your opinion only as there is nothing in the law to indicate that a paddle holster which attaches to a belt is any less a belt holster than any other type of belt holster. There is within the new law nothing to define or further clarify the definition of a belt holster. This has been discussed, I believe, almost endlessly during the legislative season.

You're right in that the law does not specifically exclude paddle holsters, but the opinion concerning them is not mine alone. Believe me....I WANT paddle holsters to be legal under the law, as I have one I'd like to use on occasion (which happens to include a retention device). But it also seems to be the consensus opinion among a lot of instructors on this board that paddle holsters do not conform to the law because they do not hang on/attach to the belt. They hang on the waistband....which may or may not include a belt. But no OWB belt holster I am aware of is going to stay attached to your pants without a belt. I actually find the distinction curious, because my paddle holster is almost impossible to remove.....it's never going to get swiped off of my person.

I asked the question about whether or not DPS had issued any clarifying guidelines regarding paddles in this thread posted by someone who just took the instructor's course: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=79562#p1011387. The answer is that this was not covered in the August instructors class.

It only hooks onto the waist band if that's where you hang it from. I can hang my Fobus or Sneaky Pete directly from my belt. So clearly that is a belt holster. But even if I hung it over my waist band it still is resting against my belt, so not sure how that couldn't be a belt holster simply because there is also fabric in back of that.

[oohrah]

I have a Fobus paddle holster that I fully intend to wear on my belt, outside my pant's waistband, without fear of violation.

[ferguson]

well thanks for clearing those up! glad I came here and asked.