Spit on a LEO & You Get the Slobber Knocked Out of You

[steveincowtown]

You could be spitting a disease that could kill me, it's just like somebody pointing what appears to be a gun at you.

What deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting?

If we compare spitting to be like a loaded gun, we need to throw sneezing in there as well.

IMHO, the officer had a greater chance of getting infection by throwing the punches and catching one of his knuckles on her teeth than he did with her spitting on him. An open wound and saliva is bad news.

Shouldn't you be taking your arguments to the Legislature? You should have an easy time convincing them that intentional spitting in someone's face is just a harmless pastime. Until you persuade them, spitting on someone is a crime.

Never said it wasn't a crime. I asked what deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting? Also, please note your article link does not support the Hep C is transmitted through spitting.

On a side note, I can recall a time on this board when folks were a little less testy and took the time to read others post fully and provide well thought out answers.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Charlie,
This part of your comment comes across as if you are special and set apart from other citizens and that you have more right to retaliate.

I'm not going to get into an argument with a bunch of non-leo's on this, so I'll make it simple and to the point.

You spit on me,

Then you went on to discuss what can be done without acknowledging the cop punched the handcuffed woman twice while the other officers moved to subdue her and prevent her from doing it again. I understand spitting on a cop may be a higher level crime than just spitting on a mere citizen. However, it does not justify retaliation and punching a handcuffed woman twice.

Like I said in my original post on this topic, I may have done the same as the cop. However, that does not make it right.

I thought I made it clear that I did not support the officers actions. I am trying to talk about the actions and such, and I didn't try to insinuate that what the officer did was okay.

I have no intention of arguing officer vs. Civilian, but it IS an enhancement to assault an officer over a civilian. The other officers IMO responded accordingly, the officer in question did not. Closed handed hitting is completely intolerable. Had that officer been under my rank, there would be serious consequences. I don't believe in male officers working with female inmates, nor do I believe in "assaulting" inmates. Corrections isn't being done properly in most places these days...

(Did I clear it up a little mojo)

[mojo84]

Charlie,
This part of your comment comes across as if you are special and set apart from other citizens and that you have more right to retaliate.

I'm not going to get into an argument with a bunch of non-leo's on this, so I'll make it simple and to the point.

You spit on me,

Then you went on to discuss what can be done without acknowledging the cop punched the handcuffed woman twice while the other officers moved to subdue her and prevent her from doing it again. I understand spitting on a cop may be a higher level crime than just spitting on a mere citizen. However, it does not justify retaliation and punching a handcuffed woman twice.

Like I said in my original post on this topic, I may have done the same as the cop. However, that does not make it right.

I thought I made it clear that I did not support the officers actions. I am trying to talk about the actions and such, and I didn't try to insinuate that what the officer did was okay.

I have no intention of arguing officer vs. Civilian, but it IS an enhancement to assault an officer over a civilian. The other officers IMO responded accordingly, the officer in question did not. Closed handed hitting is completely intolerable. Had that officer been under my rank, there would be serious consequences. I don't believe in male officers working with female inmates, nor do I believe in "assaulting" inmates. Corrections isn't being done properly in most places these days...

(Did I clear it up a little mojo)

Absolutely. Appears we think similarly.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Charlie,
This part of your comment comes across as if you are special and set apart from other citizens and that you have more right to retaliate.

I'm not going to get into an argument with a bunch of non-leo's on this, so I'll make it simple and to the point.

You spit on me,

Then you went on to discuss what can be done without acknowledging the cop punched the handcuffed woman twice while the other officers moved to subdue her and prevent her from doing it again. I understand spitting on a cop may be a higher level crime than just spitting on a mere citizen. However, it does not justify retaliation and punching a handcuffed woman twice.

Like I said in my original post on this topic, I may have done the same as the cop. However, that does not make it right.

I know we do, that's why I don't comment on you much anymore, because you usually post in line with me.
I thought I made it clear that I did not support the officers actions. I am trying to talk about the actions and such, and I didn't try to insinuate that what the officer did was okay.

I have no intention of arguing officer vs. Civilian, but it IS an enhancement to assault an officer over a civilian. The other officers IMO responded accordingly, the officer in question did not. Closed handed hitting is completely intolerable. Had that officer been under my rank, there would be serious consequences. I don't believe in male officers working with female inmates, nor do I believe in "assaulting" inmates. Corrections isn't being done properly in most places these days...

(Did I clear it up a little mojo)

Absolutely. Appears we think similarly.

[Charlies.Contingency]

You could be spitting a disease that could kill me, it's just like somebody pointing what appears to be a gun at you.

What deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting?

If we compare spitting to be like a loaded gun, we need to throw sneezing in there as well.

IMHO, the officer had a greater chance of getting infection by throwing the punches and catching one of his knuckles on her teeth than he did with her spitting on him. An open wound and saliva is bad news.

Shouldn't you be taking your arguments to the Legislature? You should have an easy time convincing them that intentional spitting in someone's face is just a harmless pastime. Until you persuade them, spitting on someone is a crime.

Never said it wasn't a crime. I asked what deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting? Also, please note your article link does not support the Hep C is transmitted through spitting.

On a side note, I can recall a time on this board when folks were a little less testy and took the time to read others post fully and provide well thought out answers.

You want some examples of what could be caught from spit?

Meningitis, chickenpox, flu, diphtheria, rubella, TB, Hepatitis ABC, conjunctivitis, cytomegalovirus...

It's is concerned by many about HIV and other stuff, but most of it cannot really be transmitted through saliva alone, but through blood, which you can spit. So anything that can be transmitted through blood, can theoretically be transmitted via spit if it has blood in it.

There's a lot of bad stuff out there, and nobody wants to take it home to their family at the end of the day because somebody spit on them.

[Javier730]

You could be spitting a disease that could kill me, it's just like somebody pointing what appears to be a gun at you.

What deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting?

If we compare spitting to be like a loaded gun, we need to throw sneezing in there as well.

IMHO, the officer had a greater chance of getting infection by throwing the punches and catching one of his knuckles on her teeth than he did with her spitting on him. An open wound and saliva is bad news.

Shouldn't you be taking your arguments to the Legislature? You should have an easy time convincing them that intentional spitting in someone's face is just a harmless pastime. Until you persuade them, spitting on someone is a crime.

Never said it wasn't a crime. I asked what deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting? Also, please note your article link does not support the Hep C is transmitted through spitting.

On a side note, I can recall a time on this board when folks were a little less testy and took the time to read others post fully and provide well thought out answers.

You want some examples of what could be caught from spit?

Meningitis, chickenpox, flu, diphtheria, rubella, TB, Hepatitis ABC, conjunctivitis, cytomegalovirus...

It's is concerned by many about HIV and other stuff, but most of it cannot really be transmitted through saliva alone, but through blood, which you can spit. So anything that can be transmitted through blood, can theoretically be transmitted via spit if it has blood in it.

There's a lot of bad stuff out there, and nobody wants to take it home to their family at the end of the day because somebody spit on them.

I know that the officer hitting the woman is wrong legally and morally but knowing there is a chance of getting a infection from the spit makes me understand why he might of reacted that way.

It would be horrible if he did catch some infection and went home and spread it to his family before finding out he had it.

[Charlies.Contingency]

You could be spitting a disease that could kill me, it's just like somebody pointing what appears to be a gun at you.

What deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting?

If we compare spitting to be like a loaded gun, we need to throw sneezing in there as well.

IMHO, the officer had a greater chance of getting infection by throwing the punches and catching one of his knuckles on her teeth than he did with her spitting on him. An open wound and saliva is bad news.

Shouldn't you be taking your arguments to the Legislature? You should have an easy time convincing them that intentional spitting in someone's face is just a harmless pastime. Until you persuade them, spitting on someone is a crime.

Never said it wasn't a crime. I asked what deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting? Also, please note your article link does not support the Hep C is transmitted through spitting.

On a side note, I can recall a time on this board when folks were a little less testy and took the time to read others post fully and provide well thought out answers.

You want some examples of what could be caught from spit?

Meningitis, chickenpox, flu, diphtheria, rubella, TB, Hepatitis ABC, conjunctivitis, cytomegalovirus...

It's is concerned by many about HIV and other stuff, but most of it cannot really be transmitted through saliva alone, but through blood, which you can spit. So anything that can be transmitted through blood, can theoretically be transmitted via spit if it has blood in it.

There's a lot of bad stuff out there, and nobody wants to take it home to their family at the end of the day because somebody spit on them.

I know that the officer hitting the woman is wrong legally and morally but knowing there is a chance of getting a infection from the spit makes me understand why he might of reacted that way.

It would be horrible if he did catch some infection and went home and spread it to his family before finding out he had it.

I can understand his concern, but I HAVE been in his shoes, and should have controlled himself better. There's no room for losing your temper in LE.

[ShootDontTalk]

Never said it wasn't a crime. I asked what deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting? Also, please note your article link does not support the Hep C is transmitted through spitting.

Reading is necessary:

Can Saliva Transmit Hepatitis C?
In nearly half the cases of Hepatitis C, the infected individuals cannot identify the source for their infection. While it is believed most cases are due to risk factors involving contaminated blood, there remain unidentified modes of Hepatitis C transmission. Salivary transmission is one potential explanation for many unexplained viral causes.
................from Hepatitis Central

Q: What is TB? How does it spread? How is it treated?

A: Tuberculosis (TB) is caused by bacteria (Mycobacterium tuberculosis) that most often affect the lungs. Tuberculosis is curable and preventable.

TB is spread from person to person through the air. When people with lung TB cough, sneeze or spit, they propel the TB germs into the air. A person needs to inhale only a few of these germs to become infected.

About one-third of the world's population has latent TB, which means people have been infected by TB bacteria but are not (yet) ill with disease and cannot transmit the disease.
.................from the World Health Organization

The germs that cause bacterial meningitis can be contagious. Some bacteria can spread through the exchange (e.g., by kissing) of respiratory and throat secretions (e.g., saliva or mucus).
.................from the CDC

On a side note, I can recall a time on this board when folks were a little less testy and took the time to read others post fully and provide well thought out answers.

Interesting observation.

I'm not being testy. You just have no scientific evidence on the side of your claim. Again, I really think you should go talk with people who actually deal with medical issues on a daily basis and get the straight story from them.

Incidentally, all three of those diseases I listed are every bit as lethal as your firearm. So are most of the others listed above.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Never said it wasn't a crime. I asked what deadly diseases are transmitted through spitting? Also, please note your article link does not support the Hep C is transmitted through spitting.

Reading is necessary:

Can Saliva Transmit Hepatitis C?
In nearly half the cases of Hepatitis C, the infected individuals cannot identify the source for their infection. While it is believed most cases are due to risk factors involving contaminated blood, there remain unidentified modes of Hepatitis C transmission. Salivary transmission is one potential explanation for many unexplained viral causes.
................from Hepatitis Central

Q: What is TB? How does it spread? How is it treated?

A: Tuberculosis (TB) is caused by bacteria (Mycobacterium tuberculosis) that most often affect the lungs. Tuberculosis is curable and preventable.

TB is spread from person to person through the air. When people with lung TB cough, sneeze or spit, they propel the TB germs into the air. A person needs to inhale only a few of these germs to become infected.

About one-third of the world's population has latent TB, which means people have been infected by TB bacteria but are not (yet) ill with disease and cannot transmit the disease.
.................from the World Health Organization

The germs that cause bacterial meningitis can be contagious. Some bacteria can spread through the exchange (e.g., by kissing) of respiratory and throat secretions (e.g., saliva or mucus).
.................from the CDC

On a side note, I can recall a time on this board when folks were a little less testy and took the time to read others post fully and provide well thought out answers.

Interesting observation.

I'm not being testy. You just have no scientific evidence on the side of your claim. Again, I really think you should go talk with people who actually deal with medical issues on a daily basis and get the straight story from them.

Incidentally, all three of those diseases I listed are every bit as lethal as your firearm. So are most of the others listed above.

[ShootDontTalk]

I have no intention of arguing officer vs. Civilian, but it IS an enhancement to assault an officer over a civilian.

I believe that is also true for medical professionals now as well. My wife was an ER RN Supervisor for 27 years. In one instance a guy spit in her face as he was being treated. They thought some might have gotten in her eye. The PD was summoned and the guy was carted off in cuffs and spent some time in prison. She had to undergo a battery of treatments and he had to undergo a battery of testing. Not fun for us.

[steveincowtown]

You want some examples of what could be caught from spit?

Meningitis, chickenpox, flu, diphtheria, rubella, TB, Hepatitis ABC, conjunctivitis, cytomegalovirus...

It's is concerned by many about HIV and other stuff, but most of it cannot really be transmitted through saliva alone, but through blood, which you can spit. So anything that can be transmitted through blood, can theoretically be transmitted via spit if it has blood in it.

There's a lot of bad stuff out there, and nobody wants to take it home to their family at the end of the day because somebody spit on them.

Was looking for "deadly", as per your spitting is the same as a gun pointed at you.

The items you pointed out are either not deadly, and in the overwhelming majority of case cannot be transmitted by saliva. I won't go through all of them, but.....

Hep ABC

http://www.webmd.com/hepatitis/hepatiti ... -questions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The chance of transmission with deep kissing is unknown, as no infections have been definitively documented after exposure to infected saliva

TB

http://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/pamp ... EN_rev.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You
cannot
get TB germs from:
Saliva
shared
from
kissing

Reminds me of the 80's when some folks thought HIV could be spread on a toilet seat...

[Charlies.Contingency]

You want some examples of what could be caught from spit?

Meningitis, chickenpox, flu, diphtheria, rubella, TB, Hepatitis ABC, conjunctivitis, cytomegalovirus...

It's is concerned by many about HIV and other stuff, but most of it cannot really be transmitted through saliva alone, but through blood, which you can spit. So anything that can be transmitted through blood, can theoretically be transmitted via spit if it has blood in it.

There's a lot of bad stuff out there, and nobody wants to take it home to their family at the end of the day because somebody spit on them.

Was looking for "deadly", as per your spitting is the same as a gun pointed at you.

The items you pointed out are either not deadly, and in the overwhelming majority of case cannot be transmitted by saliva. I won't go through all of them, but.....

Hep ABC

http://www.webmd.com/hepatitis/hepatiti ... -questions" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The chance of transmission with deep kissing is unknown, as no infections have been definitively documented after exposure to infected saliva

TB

http://www.cdc.gov/tb/publications/pamp ... EN_rev.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You
cannot
get TB germs from:
Saliva
shared
from
kissing

Reminds me of the 80's when some folks thought HIV could be spread on a toilet seat...

So, you will be so bold as to say that any of those diseases or illnesses have NEVER led to death? Even giving them to somebody could be life changing at the least. Apparently you see it as, "Assured death," if not, "it's all good."

Come back when you can prove that it's impossible to get something from spit. As I said above, it's not just saliva that we're worried about. Should you have any blood in your mouth and you spit in somebody's eye or mouth, or even into a sore, there is the possibility. The law doesn't work on what if's... It works on, "If you point a gun at somebody, the worst can be assumed." If you spit on somebody, the worst can be assumed. If somebody points a gun at you, do you just assume that it's unloaded, BECAUSE it is probable? So does that mean you don't have the right to defend yourself BECAUSE you DON'T know if it is a real gun with real bullets? There is a threat, whether real or perceived. It goes the same for spitting on somebody.

And comparing two actions to each other, do not make them the same. Just because my truck has a Detroit Deisel Engine and I compare it to a Kenworth with a Detroit, does not mean I believe that they are, "THE SAME," as you speculate.

[CoffeeNut]

I'm relieved to see that a lot of the people responding to this thread are not police officers.

[Charlies.Contingency]

I'm relieved to see that a lot of the people responding to this thread are not police officers.

How so?

[Charlies.Contingency]

I have no intention of arguing officer vs. Civilian, but it IS an enhancement to assault an officer over a civilian.

I believe that is also true for medical professionals now as well. My wife was an ER RN Supervisor for 27 years. In one instance a guy spit in her face as he was being treated. They thought some might have gotten in her eye. The PD was summoned and the guy was carted off in cuffs and spent some time in prison. She had to undergo a battery of treatments and he had to undergo a battery of testing. Not fun for us.

I could pull out the book if you want me to look it up, but as I do recall, a "Public Servant" can be cast upon a firefighter, policeman, emt, and other public servants like your wife. So I can imagine that she "could" fall under that category, and advance it to Assault of a Public Servant, and possibly aggravated.

I'm glad it all turned out well, as you didn't specify that it hadn't.