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If anyone ever tells you "Only the government should have guns", ask them to describe what the government did with guns at Kent State University on May 4, 1970. Ask them if they'd be okay with history repeating itself. Ask them if they want to rewrite the Second Amendment would they also rewrite the First Amendment and remove Right of Assembly to petition the Goverment for a redress of grievances.

I am old and remeber this.

iratollah wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 1:04 am If anyone ever tells you "Only the government should have guns", ask them to describe what the government did with guns at Kent State University on May 4, 1970. Ask them if they'd be okay with history repeating itself. Ask them if they want to rewrite the Second Amendment would they also rewrite the First Amendment and remove Right of Assembly to petition the Goverment for a redress of grievances.

Ohio.JPG

I wouldn't frame Kent State as a Second Amendment issue. I think it's more of an example of situational awareness/danger avoidance and how to safely conduct yourself in the presence of armed law enforcement. We talk about those things all the time on this forum.

W/o 2nd 1st goes away I think was the jest.

parabelum wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:29 am W/o 2nd 1st goes away I think was the jest.

Agreed. But Kent State is a bad example to discuss First Amendment issues, too. The assemblies were not peaceful. There had been arson, looting, and violence. It was a disaster waiting to happen. That's why it's a better example for private citizens on how to avoid dangerous situations.

J.R.@A&M wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:16 am

iratollah wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 1:04 am If anyone ever tells you "Only the government should have guns", ask them to describe what the government did with guns at Kent State University on May 4, 1970. Ask them if they'd be okay with history repeating itself. Ask them if they want to rewrite the Second Amendment would they also rewrite the First Amendment and remove Right of Assembly to petition the Goverment for a redress of grievances.

Ohio.JPG

I wouldn't frame Kent State as a Second Amendment issue. I think it's more of an example of situational awareness/danger avoidance and how to safely conduct yourself in the presence of armed law enforcement. We talk about those things all the time on this forum.

IMHO, Kent State is absolutely a Second Amendment issue and is what it was designed for. That situation should never have been allowed to escalate to the point that soldiers with bayonets fixed were advancing on protestors.

ETA: Yes, there was violence prior to this, but to my knowledge (I could very well be wrong) that particular protest was peaceful until after the NG arrived and began doing what government does best.

Also: The very fact that "conducting yourself safely in the presence of law enforcement" is even an issue is an indication of serious government problems.

J.R.@A&M wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:39 am

parabelum wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 8:29 am W/o 2nd 1st goes away I think was the jest.

Agreed. But Kent State is a bad example to discuss First Amendment issues, too. The assemblies were not peaceful. There had been arson, looting, and violence. It was a disaster waiting to happen. That's why it's a better example for private citizens on how to avoid dangerous situations.

Well I wasn’t there and obviously might be missing a lot there in terms of details, but the little that I do know is that non-lethal options would have been appropriate, rather than bayonets/head shots.

In response to an inane tweet from Esquire magazine...

papabear wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 4:58 am I am old and remeber this.

Yes and there was a song.

If I remember, protestors were marching on the ROTC which was next to a big commons area in the middle of the campus. Someone or many in the crowd threw things at the soldiers who were attempting to protect the ROTC building. Probably there was contagious fire after one gun was fired. The National Guardsman had rifles. Rifle bullets go a long ways and are deadly.

Most likely no one who threw anything was killed or wounded only the young kids who were doing nothing but there protesting or just walking to class.

Probably more young Americans died that day in Vietnam.

Nixon was blamed, but he had nothing to do with it.

It is important to remember Kent State when we hear the question/discussion of whether or not American soldiers would fire on US Citizens.

I recall very conflicted feelings - I was a high school senior headed to college on an ROTC scholarship, and my dad was a long-time member of the Texas Army National Guard.

E10 wrote: ↑Tue May 05, 2020 3:14 pm I recall very conflicted feelings - I was a high school senior headed to college on an ROTC scholarship, and my dad was a long-time member of the Texas Army National Guard.

Kent State is my first memory of the National Guard. Three years later, I enlisted in the active Army, 1st Cavalry Division. Ended up retiring from active duty with the Texas Army National Guard. The Guardsmen with whom I served are a far cry from the 1970 Ohio Guard.