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According to a court order filed by the Department of Justice (DOJ) on September 5, investigators want information on users of Obsidian 4, a tool used to control rifle scopes made by night-vision specialist American Technologies Network Corp. The app allows gun owners to get a live stream, take video and calibrate their gun scope from an Android or iPhone device. According to the Google Play page for Obsidian 4, it has more than 10,000 downloads. Apple doesn’t provide download numbers, so it’s unclear how many iPhone owners have been swept up in this latest government data grab.

Beiruty wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 12:58 pm It is not approved yet. Most likely it would not be approved and if it does, it would affect those living outside US only. That is if the Judge is wise enough.

rotor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.

"The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. "

ELB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm

rotor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.

Your logic is fine as far as it goes, but unfortunately the Feds have shown themselves spectacularly unable keep within the bounds of the law during investigations (see "unmasking", lying to courts to obtain "legal" permission for spying, etc).

It would seem that if the DOJ is looking for overseas end users, then they could request that from the companies, but it appears they are grabbing all users and want to do the sorting themselves:

"The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. "

rotor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:46 pm

ELB wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:23 pm

rotor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.

Your logic is fine as far as it goes, but unfortunately the Feds have shown themselves spectacularly unable keep within the bounds of the law during investigations (see "unmasking", lying to courts to obtain "legal" permission for spying, etc).

It would seem that if the DOJ is looking for overseas end users, then they could request that from the companies, but it appears they are grabbing all users and want to do the sorting themselves:

"The request is undeniably broad and would likely include all users of the app within America, not just users abroad who might indicate illegal shipments of the gun appendage. "

I normally would not trust the feds either. I hope that all they go for are foreign users too. ATN I doubt knows all of the people that have their scopes as I doubt that terrorists register them. But it is likely that terrorists have downloaded the app. The app without the scope is useless. I guess we will see what happens with Apple and Google.

rotor wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 2:10 pm Let's look at this in a different light. The scopes involved are night vision and thermal and probably their (ATN) binoculars. These I believe all have export restrictions which I assume are meant to keep them out of ISIS and other terror organizations. Most people who have a scope are going to have the Obsidian app as well although the scopes can be used without the app. If Justice can find a bunch of overseas terrorists with the app (and presumably the scopes) a bunch of lives may be saved. I previously owned one of their scopes and I give permission (if needed) to have my name given out. All they really want or need is the overseas data. Could this be more nefarious than that, sure but I don't think they are after US citizen data with this fishing expedition.

Actually I think someone with some brains thought of a way to possibly find terrorists.

Finally don't flame me because I think it may be good law enforcement and not an invasion of my rights.

narcissist wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:25 pm Sounds like good old spot lighting is looking better and better (hogs only of course). I was wondering why those scopes had fallen in price so much, guess we know why now.

narcissist wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:25 pm Sounds like good old spot lighting is looking better and better (hogs only of course). I was wondering why those scopes had fallen in price so much, guess we know why now.