Are Pepper Guns Legal in TX?

[ckr13]

I recently bought the JPX4 LE. I also own the Mace gun and a dented keychain pepper spray tube. I thought there were no restrictions on pepper spray ownership in TX, but after stumbling across the penal code, I think I may be in violation.
The JPX4 LE carries 4 (0.28fl oz) cartridges.
The Mace gun holds 28g (can't find fl oz).
The penal code says that "chemical dispensing devices" are prohibited, and only "a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection" is allowed. It does not really define what either is, so I'm worried.
If the JPX4 LE is prohibited, I'm so upset. I don't understand how Texas can have open carry (lethal), but some pepper sprays are prohibited (non-lethal)

[NotRPB]

Yes, I have the Kimber Pepperblaster pepper spray.
Also I believe the Fox Labs brand ones are good from what I've read on here.

As I understand/Interpret Penal Code: In my Layman's opinion,
You can have the personal defense sizes that people carry
Out where there's Bobcats in the country, I used to have the FIRE EXTINGUISHER SIZE to keep BEARS, Bobcats and packs of wild boars away (same as Police have for riot control ->That's what you are NOT supposed to have)

[Keith B]

I recently bought the JPX4 LE. I also own the Mace gun and a dented keychain pepper spray tube. I thought there were no restrictions on pepper spray ownership in TX, but after stumbling across the penal code, I think I may be in violation.
The JPX4 LE carries 4 (0.28fl oz) cartridges.
The Mace gun holds 28g (can't find fl oz).
The penal code says that "chemical dispensing devices" are prohibited, and only "a small chemical dispenser sold commercially for personal protection" is allowed. It does not really define what either is, so I'm worried.
If the JPX4 LE is prohibited, I'm so upset. I don't understand how Texas can have open carry (lethal), but some pepper sprays are prohibited (non-lethal)

Those are designed for Law Enforcement (hence the LE) and are not sold commercially for personal protection, although about anyone can buy them on Amazon. However, there is not a specific size definition in Texas law. If law enforcement wanted to arrest you because they feel it's not for personal protection, they could, then you might have to fight it. This guy was eventually no-billed for the 1.8oz can, but it cost him a lot in legal fees http://www.wfaa.com/story/local/2014/08/30/13457508/

As for open carry, you must have a license, and there is no license for these types of weapons, so it's apples and oranges.

[Keith B]

Menat to comment on the mace gun. If it's one of these http://www.mace.com/products/personal-d ... r-gun-pink then it should be OK. They are sold for personal protection and 28g is a little less than 1oz.

[ckr13]

Those are designed for Law Enforcement (hence the LE) and are not sold commercially for personal protection, although about anyone can buy them on Amazon. However, there is not a specific size definition in Texas law. If law enforcement wanted to arrest you because they feel it's not for personal protection, they could, then you might have to fight it. This guy was eventually no-billed for the 1.8oz can, but it cost him a lot in legal fees http://www.wfaa.com/story/local/2014/08/30/13457508/

As for open carry, you must have a license, and there is no license for these types of weapons, so it's apples and oranges.

I knew it was law enforcement designed pepper spray, but I didn't see anything wrong with it. I wanted the laser (only the LE model had a laser), since I've never aimed a gun before. What appealed to me was that it holds four cartridge shots, a laser, shoots far and fast, weather temperature (-4 to +140 F) does not affect it, and wind would affect the OC spray less than the other pepper sprays out there. I bought it off eBay, since it was cheaper than what the piexon website was selling it for. I don't know what to do now, since I can't return it....
I stumbled across that WFAA article before I posted this thread. It's another thing that had me worried.

[ckr13]

Yes, I have the Kimber Pepperblaster pepper spray.
Also I believe the Fox Labs brand ones are good from what I've read on here.

As I understand/Interpret Penal Code: In my Layman's opinion,
You can have the personal defense sizes that people carry
Out where there's Bobcats in the country, I used to have the FIRE EXTINGUISHER SIZE to keep BEARS, Bobcats and packs of wild boars away (same as Police have for riot control ->That's what you are NOT supposed to have)

I've seen the Kimber, but I think the JPX4 is in a whole other ball field.
http://www.amazon.com/Pepper-Blaster-II ... entries*=0

http://www.amazon.com/JPX-Shot-Pepper-S ... words=jpx4

[Javier730]

[Skiprr]

I can't find anything on the Piexon website (http://www.jpxline.com/index.html) that definitively states what the total capacity is--in ounces or milliliters--of the JPXA LE when fully charged. The only statement I can find anywhere is, "4 loads per mag., 0.32oz (9ml) irritant." So is that .32 oz per cylinder for a total of 1.28 oz, or four, .32 loads per cylinder for a total of 5.12 oz? I strongly suspect the former, so 1.28 oz total.

But the device is pretty large, only slightly shorter than a Glock 17, for example, but thicker by almost half an inch and taller by about 1/4 inch. Do they make a holster for this thing?

In past years, when I've carried a spray device--which is not often--it's always been OC...no, not Open Carrry; Oleoresin Capsicum. And when I do carry it I always have a few packaged towelettes of Sudecon tucked in a pocket.

One of the disadvantages of any aerosol or liquid irritant is cross contamination...not just you, but also others who may be near you when an incident goes down. I've always steered away from cone spray or fog types, but even stream patterns can blow back on you. And if a bad guy is charging you and you successfully hit him with a longer-range delivery system, it's still quite possible he might carry that liquid right back to you in a big, friendly bear-hug trying to grapple. People have varying sensitivity to chemical irritants. If you're very sensitive and the bad guy is not, deploying these without a perfect application could well result in an unhappy day.

The Sudecon wipes are about the only things proven to help if you get OC on you. That's why I never carry OC without some wipes. The "Piexol" that the JPXA uses looks to still be a capsicum derivative, though it's a proprietary product. So I'd think Sudecon should be effective for cleansing contamination. But I'd want to be sure. If I were going to carry it, I'd want Piexon to tell me Sudecon would work (you sure don't want to dose yourself just to check) and, if so, I'd buy some packets and always carry some with me.

Others will no doubt ask why a pepper spray device larger than many carry guns; why not a gun. But I won't second-guess the choice other than the bit about Sudecon above, and to note that any less-than-lethal self-defense choice comes with significant practical and situational limitations that have to be taken into account.

[ckr13]

I can't find anything on the Piexon website (http://www.jpxline.com/index.html) that definitively states what the total capacity is--in ounces or milliliters--of the JPXA LE when fully charged. The only statement I can find anywhere is, "4 loads per mag., 0.32oz (9ml) irritant." So is that .32 oz per cylinder for a total of 1.28 oz, or four, .32 loads per cylinder for a total of 5.12 oz? I strongly suspect the former, so 1.28 oz total.

But the device is pretty large, only slightly shorter than a Glock 17, for example, but thicker by almost half an inch and taller by about 1/4 inch. Do they make a holster for this thing?

In past years, when I've carried a spray device--which is not often--it's always been OC...no, not Open Carrry; Oleoresin Capsicum. And when I do carry it I always have a few packaged towelettes of Sudecon tucked in a pocket.

One of the disadvantages of any aerosol or liquid irritant is cross contamination...not just you, but also others who may be near you when an incident goes down. I've always steered away from cone spray or fog types, but even stream patterns can blow back on you. And if a bad guy is charging you and you successfully hit him with a longer-range delivery system, it's still quite possible he might carry that liquid right back to you in a big, friendly bear-hug trying to grapple. People have varying sensitivity to chemical irritants. If you're very sensitive and the bad guy is not, deploying these without a perfect application could well result in an unhappy day.

The Sudecon wipes are about the only things proven to help if you get OC on you. That's why I never carry OC without some wipes. The "Piexol" that the JPXA uses looks to still be a capsicum derivative, though it's a proprietary product. So I'd think Sudecon should be effective for cleansing contamination. But I'd want to be sure. If I were going to carry it, I'd want Piexon to tell me Sudecon would work (you sure don't want to dose yourself just to check) and, if so, I'd buy some packets and always carry some with me.

Others will no doubt ask why a pepper spray device larger than many carry guns; why not a gun. But I won't second-guess the choice other than the bit about Sudecon above, and to note that any less-than-lethal self-defense choice comes with significant practical and situational limitations that have to be taken into account.

You're right it is 0.32 oz. I was quoting the 0.28 oz which is what the 2 shot JPX guns carry.

They do make holsters. http://www.mystungun.com/JPX-4-HOLSTERS_c_291.html

Open Carry... lol thanks for the laugh.

The cartridges are basically filled with just the regular ol' pepper spray concoction.

I don't want a gun. Maybe in the future when I'm a home owner or live in a bad city/place. I just want reliable, effective pepper spray, and the technology of the JPX4 takes care of most of the cons and possible "situation-gone-bad" scenarios I have imagined in my head (as I've mentioned wind, temperature of storage places, distance, etc). There are tons of situations where a gun wouldn't be the best nor legal decision, but pepper spray would be. I don't want to take a life if there is a non-lethal option available that will temporary incapacitate the person long enough for me to get away and get help.

I just wish TX were one of the 30+ states that stated pepper spray is legal without an "as long as..." catch.

[WildBill]

To the OP, you don't say where you live, but you can always ask your local Sheriff or Police chief about the law.

[ckr13]

To the OP, you don't say where you live, but you can always ask your local Sheriff or Police chief about the law.

I live in Texas. Pepper spray laws should be uniform throughout Texas and not vary city by city. I do plan on asking. I'd hate to get into trouble over pepper spray.

[WildBill]

To the OP, you don't say where you live, but you can always ask your local Sheriff or Police chief about the law.

I live in Texas. Pepper spray laws should be uniform throughout Texas and not vary city by city. I do plan on asking. I'd hate to get into trouble over pepper spray.

I surmised that you live in Texas, but you probably spend most of your time in the city and county where you live and work.
Talking with local law enforcement officials could give you a better idea of whether or not to expect trouble over pepper spray.

[ckr13]

I surmised that you live in Texas, but you probably spend most of your time in the city and county where you live and work.
Talking with local law enforcement officials could give you a better idea of whether or not to expect trouble over pepper spray.

Thanks will do! I'll post the outcome in a month or so.

[The Annoyed Man]

I don't want a gun.Maybe in the future when I'm a home owner or live in a bad city/place. I just want reliable, effective pepper spray, and the technology of the JPX4 takes care of most of the cons and possible "situation-gone-bad" scenarios I have imagined in my head (as I've mentioned wind, temperature of storage places, distance, etc). There are tons of situations where a gun wouldn't be the best nor legal decision, but pepper spray would be. I don't want to take a life if there is a non-lethal option available that will temporary incapacitate the person long enough for me to get away and get help.

I just wish TX were one of the 30+ states that stated pepper spray is legal without an "as long as..." catch.

I am not trying to argue or belittle what you've said above in the quote, but allow me to point out a few things.......

1. "I don't want a gun. Maybe in the future when I'm a home owner or live in a bad city/place." — You'd think that being a home owner versus being a renter, or living in a bad city/place would be a good predictor of your likelihood of needing a gun for self-defense, but that turns out NOT to be the case. Assaults justifying use of force and/or deadly force in defense of self can happen anywhere, including the richest neighborhoods in the most peaceful cities. As many on this forum are fond of quoting: "Carry 24/7 or guess right." Most of us to have chosen to be licensed and to carry gun, and we do so for the unexpected events - because you can avoid some trouble by avoiding trouble spots, but you can't avoid what is going to happen unexpectedly. Rich homes get burglarized MORE than poor homes......because the rich have more stuff.....which means that the rich are at least as likely, if not more so, to have to confront a dangerous intruder inside their homes. And I have seen someone on PCP not even be phased in the slightest by OC spray, whereas a gun could have easily incapacitated him.
2. "There are tons of situations where a gun wouldn't be the best nor legal decision" — I'd suggest you read up on the law. "Best" is a matter of perspective", but in almost any situation in which you'd be justified in pepper-spraying someone, you'd also be justified in shooting that person. If you pepper-spray someone inappropriately, you're guilty of aggravated assault. If you use it inappropriately and the person has an allergic reaction to the Capsicum and crumps into cardiopulmonary arrest, you're guilty of homicide.
3. "I don't want to take a life if there is a non-lethal option available" — The fact is, none of us want to take a life unnecessarily either. The LTC class requires the instructor to teach a segment on deescalation, and another on conflict resolution. We are also taught that we do not "shoot to kill". We "shoot to stop the threat". The FACT is that about 80%-85% of gunshot victims survive being shot. But EVEN IF the attacker dies of a gunshot wound, consider the following: because you are a peaceful and non-violent person, if you were pushed to the point where you had to use your pepper spray to ward off an attacker, would you not agree that the moral burden for his being pepper-sprayed lies on HIS shoulders? After all, if he did not initiate the attack, you would not have sprayed him. You were merely defending yourself. You don't just go around randomly spraying people, right? The exact same rationale applies to someone who uses a gun in self-defense...... if the attacker had not initiated an unlawful attack, he would not have been shot. If he dies of that gunshot wound, he would still be alive if he had not initiated the attack. It is normal in civilian life to desire NOT to kill someone else, and it is psychologically pathological under normal circumstances to have a desire to kill. But if the attacker does not initiate his attack, there will be NO pepper-spraying, and NO shooting. Therefore, while it is normal to not want to take life, when it comes to self-defense, it is not a burden that is yours to carry - because the desire to survive is ALSO normal AND moral.

Your choices are your choices, even if they are not my choices, and I respect them. But, I do wish you would give some consideration to what I've written above; because there is a very real possibility that, if you pepper spray someone in legitimate self defense, you might just enrage him further, causing him to mete out even more damage to your person......not to mention the possibility of dosing yourself with the spray. Whereas, there are much better odds of your stopping the attack with a couple of well-placed shots AND he still has a good chance of surviving the wounds. But whether he survives or not, the moral burden is his, not yours to carry.

Best of luck with whatever your decision is.

Edited to add:

I surmised that you live in Texas, but you probably spend most of your time in the city and county where you live and work.
Talking with local law enforcement officials could give you a better idea of whether or not to expect trouble over pepper spray.

Thanks will do! I'll post the outcome in a month or so.

Why? What happens in a month?

[ckr13]

I don't want a gun.Maybe in the future when I'm a home owner or live in a bad city/place. I just want reliable, effective pepper spray, and the technology of the JPX4 takes care of most of the cons and possible "situation-gone-bad" scenarios I have imagined in my head (as I've mentioned wind, temperature of storage places, distance, etc). There are tons of situations where a gun wouldn't be the best nor legal decision, but pepper spray would be. I don't want to take a life if there is a non-lethal option available that will temporary incapacitate the person long enough for me to get away and get help.

I just wish TX were one of the 30+ states that stated pepper spray is legal without an "as long as..." catch.

I am not trying to argue or belittle what you've said above in the quote, but allow me to point out a few things.......

1. "I don't want a gun. Maybe in the future when I'm a home owner or live in a bad city/place." — You'd think that being a home owner versus being a renter, or living in a bad city/place would be a good predictor of your likelihood of needing a gun for self-defense, but that turns out NOT to be the case. Assaults justifying use of force and/or deadly force in defense of self can happen anywhere, including the richest neighborhoods in the most peaceful cities. As many on this forum are fond of quoting: "Carry 24/7 or guess right." Most of us to have chosen to be licensed and to carry gun, and we do so for the unexpected events - because you can avoid some trouble by avoiding trouble spots, but you can't avoid what is going to happen unexpectedly. Rich homes get burglarized MORE than poor homes......because the rich have more stuff.....which means that the rich are at least as likely, if not more so, to have to confront a dangerous intruder inside their homes. And I have seen someone on PCP not even be phased in the slightest by OC spray, whereas a gun could have easily incapacitated him.
2. "There are tons of situations where a gun wouldn't be the best nor legal decision" — I'd suggest you read up on the law. "Best" is a matter of perspective", but in almost any situation in which you'd be justified in pepper-spraying someone, you'd also be justified in shooting that person. If you pepper-spray someone inappropriately, you're guilty of aggravated assault. If you use it inappropriately and the person has an allergic reaction to the Capsicum and crumps into cardiopulmonary arrest, you're guilty of homicide.
3. "I don't want to take a life if there is a non-lethal option available" — The fact is, none of us want to take a life unnecessarily either. The LTC class requires the instructor to teach a segment on deescalation, and another on conflict resolution. We are also taught that we do not "shoot to kill". We "shoot to stop the threat". The FACT is that about 80%-85% of gunshot victims survive being shot. But EVEN IF the attacker dies of a gunshot wound, consider the following: because you are a peaceful and non-violent person, if you were pushed to the point where you had to use your pepper spray to ward off an attacker, would you not agree that the moral burden for his being pepper-sprayed lies on HIS shoulders? After all, if he did not initiate the attack, you would not have sprayed him. You were merely defending yourself. You don't just go around randomly spraying people, right? The exact same rationale applies to someone who uses a gun in self-defense...... if the attacker had not initiated an unlawful attack, he would not have been shot. If he dies of that gunshot wound, he would still be alive if he had not initiated the attack. It is normal in civilian life to desire NOT to kill someone else, and it is psychologically pathological under normal circumstances to have a desire to kill. But if the attacker does not initiate his attack, there will be NO pepper-spraying, and NO shooting. Therefore, while it is normal to not want to take life, when it comes to self-defense, it is not a burden that is yours to carry - because the desire to survive is ALSO normal AND moral.

Your choices are your choices, even if they are not my choices, and I respect them. But, I do wish you would give some consideration to what I've written above; because there is a very real possibility that, if you pepper spray someone in legitimate self defense, you might just enrage him further, causing him to mete out even more damage to your person......not to mention the possibility of dosing yourself with the spray. Whereas, there are much better odds of your stopping the attack with a couple of well-placed shots AND he still has a good chance of surviving the wounds. But whether he survives or not, the moral burden is his, not yours to carry.

Best of luck with whatever your decision is.

Edited to add:

I surmised that you live in Texas, but you probably spend most of your time in the city and county where you live and work.
Talking with local law enforcement officials could give you a better idea of whether or not to expect trouble over pepper spray.

Thanks will do! I'll post the outcome in a month or so.

Why? What happens in a month?

I live with a relative who already has their CHL and a gun, so the home is pretty much covered to an extent. Also, we do not live in a rich neighborhood.

Good point about the situations that call for pepper-spray could also call for a gun; however, I said that there are situations where a gun wouldn't be the best nor legal decision I was thinking more along the lines of..for example, a guy who is ( or seems to be) weapon-free won't leave a woman alone and is harassing her verbally and maybe touches her. I don't think gun shots would be the right response. Or a drunk guy who is getting a bit out of hand. Obviously the guy can't walk straight, so would it really warrant the use of a bullet? Thanks for your input. It has given me points to consider. Since I'll be living on campus for the next few years, I don't see myself getting my CHL until post-graduation.

Oh no--Haha that sounds so bad! The suspense must have been killing you I'm home on summer vacation, so it'll be awhile before I go back on campus to ask/talk to my old criminology instructor (he's a lieutenant for my local PD) about it.