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To my knowledge there are at least nine (probably more), SCOTUS rulings that there is no constitutional or federal statutory duty for police to respond and protect any particular individual, or persons (absent a few very narrow exceptions), just a general duty to protect the community/keep the peace.

Has there been a case in the courts of Texas on this, specific to Texas? I don't think there is anything in any of the SCOTUS rulings that say that a state can't establish its own higher level of duty for peace officers, to require the police to respond to some (e.g. restraining order enforcement) or all calls, although the Legilature would be insane to establish such a standard.

Are there any state-level cases similar to Castle Rock vs Gonzales or any of the other federal level "no duty" cases? I have no idea how to look this up on my own. Does something in the Statutes establish a standard, e.g. "do your best with what you got and no more" sort of thing?

They have no duty to protect you but depending on where you live you may be legally obligated to assist them. For example.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusing_ ... ce_officer

Texas

Art. 2.14. MAY SUMMON AID.[42]

Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons summoned are bound to obey.

Art. 2.15. PERSON REFUSING TO AID. The peace officer who has summoned any person to assist him in performing any duty shall report such person, if he refuse to obey, to the proper district or county attorney, in order that he may be prosecuted for the offense.

Alabama

ALA CODE § 13A-10-5 : Alabama Code - Section 13A-10-5:

REFUSING TO AID PEACE OFFICER [3]

(a) A person commits the crime of refusing to aid a peace officer if, upon command by a peace officer identified to him as such, he fails or refuses to aid such peace officer in:

(1) Effecting or securing a lawful arrest; or

(2) Preventing the commission by another person of any offense.

(b) A person is not liable under this section if the failure or refusal to aid the officer was reasonable under the circumstances. The burden of injecting this issue is on the defendant, but this does not shift the burden of proof.

(c) Refusing to aid a peace officer is a Class C misdemeanor.''

Some people were recently charged with this offense somewhere in the south...Alabama or Mississippi I think.

I am curious if this (no duty to protect) has ever been challenged in court at the State level. Anyone know of a case?

ELB,

I don't know the answer to your question.

I do have one of my own.

Are there many instances that you know of when LE is called for help, they've refused, or took their sweet time to the detriment of the citizen who called?

Yea,,,,,twice

My granddaughter called 911 late one night when a man pulled up to the side of the house and got out with a crowbar or tire iron in his hand and started banging on her door. After about 10 minutes of him banging and walking around the house peering in windows, she called 911 again at which time the dispatcher told her the officer was working another call and would be there shortly. She called and woke me up (600 miles away) and I told her to get her gun and find a spot of cover to watch the door with her back to a wall. She was terrified. Her husband was racing to get home.

At that point, I called her PD dispatch and again told them the situation. Same story. I called her on one cell and called 911 back on another cell and while dispatch was listening, told her if he started banging on the door again to open fire. I asked her if she had her 12 gauge. She said yes. I told her to aim the shotgun about a foot below the peep hole. I won't tell you what the dispatcher said.

In a minute she said she could hear sirens. She was crying by the time the officers got there. She put the guns away and handed the phone to a Corporal so I could talk to him. He apologized profusely. I told him he had no reason to do so as I knew they were short handed. He said he was going to talk with the 911 Supervisor as the call initially only said there was a prowler. I thanked him and then thanked the good Lord.

So no. Police never do it on purpose. Ever. But things do sometimes get confused. Delays happen for all kinds of reasons. Things go south. The lesson: we are responsible to protect ourselves. But then I suspect we already knew that.

ShootDontTalk wrote:My granddaughter called 911 late one night when a man pulled up to the side of the house and got out with a crowbar or tire iron in his hand and started banging on her door. After about 10 minutes of him banging and walking around the house peering in windows, she called 911 again at which time the dispatcher told her the officer was working another call and would be there shortly. She called and woke me up (600 miles away) and I told her to get her gun and find a spot of cover to watch the door with her back to a wall. She was terrified. Her husband was racing to get home.

At that point, I called her PD dispatch and again told them the situation. Same story. I called her on one cell and called 911 back on another cell and while dispatch was listening, told her if he started banging on the door again to open fire. I asked her if she had her 12 gauge. She said yes. I told her to aim the shotgun about a foot below the peep hole. I won't tell you what the dispatcher said.

In a minute she said she could hear sirens. She was crying by the time the officers got there. She put the guns away and handed the phone to a Corporal so I could talk to him. He apologized profusely. I told him he had no reason to do so as I knew they were short handed. He said he was going to talk with the 911 Supervisor as the call initially only said there was a prowler. I thanked him and then thanked the good Lord.

So no. Police never do it on purpose. Ever. But things do sometimes get confused. Delays happen for all kinds of reasons. Things go south. The lesson: we are responsible to protect ourselves. But then I suspect we already knew that.

How did you call 911 from 600 miles away? Didn't it connect you to your local 911 service?

VMI77 wrote:They have no duty to protect you but depending on where you live you may be legally obligated to assist them. For example.....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refusing_ ... ce_officer

Texas

Art. 2.14. MAY SUMMON AID.[42]

Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons summoned are bound to obey.

Art. 2.15. PERSON REFUSING TO AID. The peace officer who has summoned any person to assist him in performing any duty shall report such person, if he refuse to obey, to the proper district or county attorney, in order that he may be prosecuted for the offense.

Alabama

ALA CODE § 13A-10-5 : Alabama Code - Section 13A-10-5:

REFUSING TO AID PEACE OFFICER [3]

(a) A person commits the crime of refusing to aid a peace officer if, upon command by a peace officer identified to him as such, he fails or refuses to aid such peace officer in:

(1) Effecting or securing a lawful arrest; or

(2) Preventing the commission by another person of any offense.

(b) A person is not liable under this section if the failure or refusal to aid the officer was reasonable under the circumstances. The burden of injecting this issue is on the defendant, but this does not shift the burden of proof.

(c) Refusing to aid a peace officer is a Class C misdemeanor.''

Some people were recently charged with this offense somewhere in the south...Alabama or Mississippi I think.

I'll treat police officers no differently than I would anyone else in need of assistance. Given the totality of the situation, mines and theirs, I'd be extremely careful about intervention/assistance. As police like to say to justify their actions, good or bad, "I did x ,y or z because I want to go home to my family at the end of the day", well so do I. A police officer's life or any other stranger's is not worth any more than mine or my family.

So at the risk of sounding anticop I'll proceed along the same lines as they do, no obligation to protect or assist. Now, does that mean I'd never intervene or assist, no, I'll just have to weigh the factors and make a judgment call, not just follow blindly because they said so.

mojo84 wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:My granddaughter called 911 late one night when a man pulled up to the side of the house and got out with a crowbar or tire iron in his hand and started banging on her door. After about 10 minutes of him banging and walking around the house peering in windows, she called 911 again at which time the dispatcher told her the officer was working another call and would be there shortly. She called and woke me up (600 miles away) and I told her to get her gun and find a spot of cover to watch the door with her back to a wall. She was terrified. Her husband was racing to get home.

At that point, I called her PD dispatch and again told them the situation. Same story. I called her on one cell and called 911 back on another cell and while dispatch was listening, told her if he started banging on the door again to open fire. I asked her if she had her 12 gauge. She said yes. I told her to aim the shotgun about a foot below the peep hole. I won't tell you what the dispatcher said.

In a minute she said she could hear sirens. She was crying by the time the officers got there. She put the guns away and handed the phone to a Corporal so I could talk to him. He apologized profusely. I told him he had no reason to do so as I knew they were short handed. He said he was going to talk with the 911 Supervisor as the call initially only said there was a prowler. I thanked him and then thanked the good Lord.

So no. Police never do it on purpose. Ever. But things do sometimes get confused. Delays happen for all kinds of reasons. Things go south. The lesson: we are responsible to protect ourselves. But then I suspect we already knew that.

How did you call 911 from 600 miles away? Didn't it connect you to your local 911 service?

I am wondering the same.

LSUTiger wrote:I'll treat police officers no differently than I would anyone else in need of assistance. Given the totality of the situation, mines and theirs, I'd be extremely careful about intervention/assistance. As police like to say to justify their actions, good or bad, "I did x ,y or z because I want to go home to my family at the end of the day", well so do I. A police officer's life or any other stranger's is not worth any more than mine or my family.

So at the risk of sounding anticop I'll proceed along the same lines as they do, no obligation to protect or assist. Now, does that mean I'd never intervene or assist, no, I'll just have to weigh the factors and make a judgment call, not just follow blindly because they said so.

well said.

Abraham wrote:ELB,

Are there many instances that you know of when LE is called for help, they've refused, ...

Town of Castle Rock vs. Gonzales

ELB,

Thanks!

mojo84 wrote:

ShootDontTalk wrote:.......At that point, I called her PD dispatch and again told them the situation.

How did you call 911 from 600 miles away? Didn't it connect you to your local 911 service?

Should have made that clear to people who've never been in Law Enforcement. The call center (Administrative calls) at night is handled in the bunker/basement by the same dispatchers who handle 911. I called the Administrative number. I identified myself and asked for the dispatcher who was handling the call. Notice I said "her PD dispatch", not "her 911". Sorry for the confusion.

I should have said, "I called her PD Dispatch Center on a non-emergency line and asked to speak to the dispatcher handling the call" but that seemed even more convoluted.