TexasCHLforum.com

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From the New Pittsburgh Courier Online. There is even a website that keeps track.

VPC statistics. They wouldn't lie would they? Or kind of stretch the truth to make it appear to support their agenda.

It's entirely possible that "fatalities associated with concealed carry gun permit holders at ConcealedCarryKillers.org and found that 743 people have been killed" but that some to many of those will actually, on investigation, be found to have been other than murder.

What they fail to tell you is that those deaths account for only 3 tenths of 1% of the shooting deaths during the same time period.

jmra wrote:What they fail to tell you is that those deaths account for only 3 tenths of 1% of the shooting deaths during the same time period.

As well as the actual time period.

jimlongley wrote:VPC statistics. They wouldn't lie would they?

Not unless they're by themselves or with someone.

It's sad that these people lie so freely. And they don't provide links so people can easily check them. First of all, there is no such thing as "criminal homicide" in Texas. There is capital murder, murder and manslaughter. And, of course, citing these without any context at all, makes them meaningless for anything but emotional manipulation, which is entirely their goal.

Date: Between January 1, 2010 and December 31, 2010
People Killed: 6


Circumstances: Between January 1, 2010 and December 31, 2010, the Texas Department of Public Safety reported that six Texas concealed handgun license holders were convicted of criminal homicide. In its annual report, the Texas Department of Public Safety does not release the offender’s name, the exact date of the event, nor the type of weapon used in the homicide.

Source: Conviction Rates for Concealed Handgun License Holders, Reporting Period: 01/01/2010 – 12/31/2010, Texas Department of Public Safety.

According to DPS statistics, which are readily available on their website: 3 CHL holders were convicted of capital murder, 4 of murder and 1 of manslaughter. During the same time frame, 93 "others" were convicted of capital murder, 458 of murder and 121 of manslaughter. By VPS logic, we should arm everyone. It would reduce murders.

Date: Between January 1, 2011 and December 31, 2011
People Killed: 6


Circumstances: Between January 1, 2011 and December 31, 2011, the Texas Department of Public Safety reported that six Texas concealed handgun license holders were convicted of criminal homicide. In its annual report, the Texas Department of Public Safety does not release the offender’s name, the exact date of the event, nor the type of weapon used in the homicide.

Source: Conviction Rates for Concealed Handgun License Holders, Reporting Period: 01/01/2011 – 12/31/2011, Texas Department of Public Safety.

DPS Report - 1 convicted of capital murder, 3 of manslaughter and 3 of murder. During the same time, 73 "others" were convicted of capital murder, 481 of murder and 112 of manslaughter.

Date: Between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2012
People Killed: 2


Circumstances: Between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2012, the Texas Department of Public Safety reported that two Texas concealed handgun license holders were convicted of criminal homicide. In its annual report, the Texas Department of Public Safety does not release the offender’s name, the exact date of the event, nor the type of weapon used in the homicide.

Source: Conviction Rates for Concealed Handgun License Holders, Reporting Period: 01/01/2012 – 12/31/2012, Texas Department of Public Safety.

DPS Report - 1 convicted of capital murder and 1 convicted of murder - hey, they actually got one right! During the same time, 125 "others" were convicted of capital murder, 395 of murder and 98 of manslaughter.

So, for the three year period: CHL capital murders - 5, others - 291, CHL murders - 8, others - 1034, CHL manslaughters - 4, others - 331.

Gee. Their research says CHL people commit suicide or murder more often than they use guns for self defense. Given the low rate of such things among CHL's, it must be a pretty peaceful world.

baldeagle wrote:It's sad that these people lie so freely. And they don't provide links so people can easily check them. First of all, there is no such thing as "criminal homicide" in Texas. There is capital murder, murder and manslaughter. And, of course, citing these without any context at all, makes them meaningless for anything but emotional manipulation, which is entirely their goal.

Date: Between January 1, 2010 and December 31, 2010
People Killed: 6


Circumstances: Between January 1, 2010 and December 31, 2010, the Texas Department of Public Safety reported that six Texas concealed handgun license holders were convicted of criminal homicide. In its annual report, the Texas Department of Public Safety does not release the offender’s name, the exact date of the event, nor the type of weapon used in the homicide.

Source: Conviction Rates for Concealed Handgun License Holders, Reporting Period: 01/01/2010 – 12/31/2010, Texas Department of Public Safety.

According to DPS statistics, which are readily available on their website: 3 CHL holders were convicted of capital murder, 4 of murder and 1 of manslaughter. During the same time frame, 93 "others" were convicted of capital murder, 458 of murder and 121 of manslaughter. By VPS logic, we should arm everyone. It would reduce murders.

Date: Between January 1, 2011 and December 31, 2011
People Killed: 6


Circumstances: Between January 1, 2011 and December 31, 2011, the Texas Department of Public Safety reported that six Texas concealed handgun license holders were convicted of criminal homicide. In its annual report, the Texas Department of Public Safety does not release the offender’s name, the exact date of the event, nor the type of weapon used in the homicide.

Source: Conviction Rates for Concealed Handgun License Holders, Reporting Period: 01/01/2011 – 12/31/2011, Texas Department of Public Safety.

DPS Report - 1 convicted of capital murder, 3 of manslaughter and 3 of murder. During the same time, 73 "others" were convicted of capital murder, 481 of murder and 112 of manslaughter.

Date: Between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2012
People Killed: 2


Circumstances: Between January 1, 2012 and December 31, 2012, the Texas Department of Public Safety reported that two Texas concealed handgun license holders were convicted of criminal homicide. In its annual report, the Texas Department of Public Safety does not release the offender’s name, the exact date of the event, nor the type of weapon used in the homicide.

Source: Conviction Rates for Concealed Handgun License Holders, Reporting Period: 01/01/2012 – 12/31/2012, Texas Department of Public Safety.

DPS Report - 1 convicted of capital murder and 1 convicted of murder - hey, they actually got one right! During the same time, 125 "others" were convicted of capital murder, 395 of murder and 98 of manslaughter.

So, for the three year period: CHL capital murders - 5, others - 291, CHL murders - 8, others - 1034, CHL manslaughters - 4, others - 331.

Considering the dates of some of those they named, I am sure that there is some cross pollination and duplication.

jimlongley wrote:

jmra wrote:What they fail to tell you is that those deaths account for only 3 tenths of 1% of the shooting deaths during the same time period.

As well as the actual time period.

I was basing the time period off of the pdf which stated 2007 to present.

Isn’t there a way to make these liars pay a price for their lies and propaganda?

Even though we are winning I get tired of these jerks trying to make all CHL holders look bad.

I realize this is protected by the 1st Amendment but what they are doing is wrong and they know it is wrong. They probably can’t be sued but maybe some full page ads in major newspapers calling them out as liars (and don’t be afraid to use the term “liars”) might slow them down.

VoiceofReason wrote:...protected by the 1st Amendment...

Why should that matter, look at the people blaming the people that organized that muhammad cartoon contest in Garland. Everyone in the media was jumping on blaming them instead of the two guys that were trying to kill people. Got to love hypocrites. That is hate speech and should be banned, but lying is okay and is protected by the 1st amendment.

jmra wrote:

jimlongley wrote:

jmra wrote:What they fail to tell you is that those deaths account for only 3 tenths of 1% of the shooting deaths during the same time period.

As well as the actual time period.

I was basing the time period off of the pdf which stated 2007 to present.

Yes, but what time period were they using?

jimlongley wrote:

jmra wrote:

jimlongley wrote:

jmra wrote:What they fail to tell you is that those deaths account for only 3 tenths of 1% of the shooting deaths during the same time period.

As well as the actual time period.

I was basing the time period off of the pdf which stated 2007 to present.

Yes, but what time period were they using?

The 700+ deaths they are referring to are all detailed in the pdf linked their website which is 2007 to present.

VoiceofReason wrote:Isn’t there a way to make these liars pay a price for their lies and propaganda?

Even though we are winning I get tired of these jerks trying to make all CHL holders look bad.

I realize this is protected by the 1st Amendment but what they are doing is wrong and they know it is wrong. They probably can’t be sued but maybe some full page ads in major newspapers calling them out as liars (and don’t be afraid to use the term “liars”) might slow them down.

I am serious about doing what is necessary to stop these people from spreading lies. Joseph Goebbels would not only be proud of them but could probably learn a few things.

They are doing everything they can to defame an entire class of people of which I am one.

We discuss (on this forum and elsewhere) how they twist the statistics to present the image of us they want to the public without actually lying, but no one is doing anything about it. Intentionally misrepresenting the truth is lying even if you are factually correct.

I lot of good men died young winning and keeping the rights we have but here we are playing softball with scum like this that would take them away.

Is the NRA or any state pro self protection groups planning to do anything about it?

VoiceofReason wrote:

VoiceofReason wrote:Isn’t there a way to make these liars pay a price for their lies and propaganda?

Even though we are winning I get tired of these jerks trying to make all CHL holders look bad.

I realize this is protected by the 1st Amendment but what they are doing is wrong and they know it is wrong. They probably can’t be sued but maybe some full page ads in major newspapers calling them out as liars (and don’t be afraid to use the term “liars”) might slow them down.

I am serious about doing what is necessary to stop these people from spreading lies. Joseph Goebbels would not only be proud of them but could probably learn a few things.

They are doing everything they can to defame an entire class of people of which I am one.

We discuss (on this forum and elsewhere) how they twist the statistics to present the image of us they want to the public without actually lying, but no one is doing anything about it. Intentionally misrepresenting the truth is lying even if you are factually correct.

I lot of good men died young winning and keeping the rights we have but here we are playing softball with scum like this that would take them away.

Is the NRA or any state pro self protection groups planning to do anything about it?

Of course not. The antis use words like "safety" and "moms" and a thousand other weasel words, and their cronies in the mass media control the narrative that the masses see and hear every day. If anyone said anything against them, the mass media would and do call every name in the book like "killers" and "evil", etc, blah blah. Yeah, I'm sick of 'em too, if anyone can't tell.