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Interesting way of looking at it. Gun control slant in last paragraph

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/gov ... tid=pm_pop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Rex B wrote:Interesting way of looking at it. Gun control slant in last paragraph

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/gov ... tid=pm_pop" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Covered here: viewtopic.php?f=94&t=70036&hilit=+nations#p868052

I have posted so many times in the past couple of years exactly this theory, except that I take it to its logical conclusion—the breakup of the country, first into semi-autonomous regions, and ultimately into separate nation-states organized along the same geographical lines as those semi-autonomous regions.

In November 2012, I posted:
viewtopic.php?p=730353#p730353" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In March of 2013, I posted:
viewtopic.php?p=785675#p785675" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=785684#p785684" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In July of 2013, I posted:
viewtopic.php?p=838389#p838389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=838412#p838412" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=838506#p838506" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?p=838897#p838897" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There are other similar posts I've made, but I can't find them all.

I VERY highly recommend reading this article: http://www.the-american-interest.com/20 ... e-deserve/. It was written back in 2012, but it applies no less today than it did then. The person who wrote this was wise, and perceptive. And the case that he makes underlies my fundamental pessimism about the future of the nation.

Apparently, there is now a liberal reporter who is close to drawing the same conclusions I've drawn. Absent radical change for the better, balkanization is in our future. I don't like it, but I think it is our fate. The only thing we can hope for if it is to happen, is that will happen without political violence.

Tam, that's a pretty negative outlook, but you could be right.

I'll read that article, thanks.

Rex

Rex B wrote:Tam, that's a pretty negative outlook, but you could be right.

I'll read that article, thanks.

Rex

I am pessimistic because I have no faith in human nature to act in any other way than immediate self-gratification. People who take the long term view are too rare. They didn't used to be rare, but they are now. It would take decades to rebuild a predominantly self-denying adult population, and during those decades, the culture would continue sliding downhill...... because it won't begin to turn around until the wise are in the majority.

I wish it weren't so, but ours is hardly the first major power that committed suicide by means of bread and circuses. Why should we be any different? John Adams famously said "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." History has proven him correct. We are certainly no longer religious and moral, nor are we any longer either a moral or a religious people—as witnessed by the state of our culture. One or the other by itself might keep things limping along; but we lack both. Thus our Constitution is no longer suitable for us........not because it isn't a perfect document, but because we are a culturally fallen people and lack the fiber required to live up to its standards of liberty. With liberty comes responsibility, and nobody wants responsibility. So........

So I have no reason to be optimistic. I sincerely wish I did.

The Annoyed Man wrote:I am pessimistic because I have no faith in human nature to act in any other way than immediate self-gratification. People who take the long term view are too rare. They didn't used to be rare, but they are now. It would take decades to rebuild a predominantly self-denying adult population, and during those decades, the culture would continue sliding downhill...... because it won't begin to turn around until the wise are in the majority.

Long term view or outlook and planning is unique to agrarian societies. When the decisions you make today, effect your ability to eat next year, you tend to develop a long term view.
The U.S. ceased being a majority agrarian society in the late 19th century. As folks left the land and began working in an urban/industrial environment their outlook began to change. How do you feed yourself and your family tomorrow? Next week? No root cellar, no spring house, no mason jars, no stock, no game.
Farming and the land that supported it, was/is the basis for civilization. The evolution of Western Civilization is the product of farming and self reliance. Greek City States, founded by farmers. Roman Republic, founded by farmers. These United States of America, founded by farmers. Heck the U.K. move to constitutional monarchy was a product of the growth of the yeomanry(farmers with the ability to shoot sharp/pointy things through armor).
Your posts on the dissolution of these United States recognize that the rural/farming/ranching areas of the country have different outlooks/values/morality than our urban brethren. Perhaps my thesis explains why.

Oh, and dissolution please, not Balkanization. Balkanization is by definition an extremely violent fragmentation of a state or region.

Dadtodabone wrote:

The Annoyed Man wrote:I am pessimistic because I have no faith in human nature to act in any other way than immediate self-gratification. People who take the long term view are too rare. They didn't used to be rare, but they are now. It would take decades to rebuild a predominantly self-denying adult population, and during those decades, the culture would continue sliding downhill...... because it won't begin to turn around until the wise are in the majority.

Long term view or outlook and planning is unique to agrarian societies. When the decisions you make today, effect your ability to eat next year, you tend to develop a long term view.
The U.S. ceased being a majority agrarian society in the late 19th century. As folks left the land and began working in an urban/industrial environment their outlook began to change. How do you feed yourself and your family tomorrow? Next week? No root cellar, no spring house, no mason jars, no stock, no game.
Farming and the land that supported it, was/is the basis for civilization. The evolution of Western Civilization is the product of farming and self reliance. Greek City States, founded by farmers. Roman Republic, founded by farmers. These United States of America, founded by farmers. Heck the U.K. move to constitutional monarchy was a product of the growth of the yeomanry(farmers with the ability to shoot sharp/pointy things through armor).
Your posts on the dissolution of these United States recognize that the rural/farming/ranching areas of the country have different outlooks/values/morality than our urban brethren. Perhaps my thesis explains why.

Oh, and dissolution please, not Balkanization. Balkanization is by definition an extremely violent fragmentation of a state or region.

You have perfectly explained the roots of the problem which underpin my viewpoint, and if I had taken the time, I would have included it. Great minds....and all that....

Dissolution is actually my hope, and Balkanization is my fear. I should expand this to say that dissolution is only my hope because I don't see a future in which the 50 states of the Union return to constitutional governance, and the nation heals itself. My Hope (capital "H") is that the nation would be healed. But since I am pessimistic that it will be healed, then non-violent dissolution would be my next best hope (small "h").

The Annoyed Man wrote: ...Thus our Constitution is no longer suitable for us....

What do you suggest in its stead, TAM?

Jim

The Annoyed Man wrote: Oh, and dissolution please, not Balkanization. Balkanization is by definition an extremely violent fragmentation of a state or region.

Given the intolerance shown to those of differing opinions these days, I'm afraid it's going to be dissolution followed by Balkanization.

I tend to believe the more fragmented we become, the bigger the threats from outside will become until something major happens that demonstrates the possibility even to the not so bright of living under a much worse government.

Back during the standoff of the “Republic of Texas” group there was a joke about a messenger delivering some good news and some bad news to the leader of the group.

The good news was that Texas had been granted independence. The bad news was that the message was delivered by the Mexican Army.

Pick the threat you like, Muslims, Russia, Iran, Look at the map, do you think that half of Texas would meekly go back to Mexico?

No, I don't think it will happen. The only questions are "how close will we get"? How big will the threat be and where will it come from?

MHO