NFA Trusts...

[RogueUSMC]

OK...just to make sure I understand everything right...

As the law stands on personal purchase of a NFA firearm:

• Apply for transfer of NFA firearm that requires CLEO apploval
• personal fingerprints be submitted
• anyone other than the person ATF approved is committing a crime by possession or use of said firearm
• transfer taxes and above process do apply when said person passes on and possession is moved to an heir

As the law stands now NFA trust benefits include but are not limited to the following:

• purchase of a NFA firearm does not require CLEO sign-off and fingerprints
• truncated turnaround time for ATF approval due to no pingerprint and background check
• anyone named on the trust as a trustee is not committing a crime by possession or use of said firearm
• transfer taxes don't apply when settlor or trustee passes on and possession is moved to another named in the trust

Proposed changes to the NFA trust portions of the law as I understand them:

• purchase of a NFA firearm will require CLEO sign-off and fingerprints of all persons named in the trust. All will have to undergo the process as if they were undergoing the NFA approval process personally as opposed to being part of the trust as it now stands

My questions are as follows:

• what is the likelyhood that these changes will be confirmed and become law? (the ones selling trusts tell me that they are fairly certain it will pass...but they are trying to sell these trusts, so of course they will say that)
• if I can't afford both the trust AND a firearm (that this trust process is designed to be an umbrella for) prior to this legislation taking effect, is there any benefit of doing the trust now or waiting until I am ready to purchase the firearm? If I can only do one or the other at this time, does it even make sense to let this 'deadline' be a consideration?

[The_Busy_Mom]

OK...just to make sure I understand everything right...

As the law stands on personal purchase of a NFA firearm:

• Apply for transfer of NFA firearm that requires CLEO apploval
• personal fingerprints be submitted
• anyone other than the person ATF approved is committing a crime by possession or use of said firearm
• transfer taxes and above process do apply when said person passes on and possession is moved to an heir

As the law stands now NFA trust benefits include but are not limited to the following:

• purchase of a NFA firearm does not require CLEO sign-off and fingerprints
• truncated turnaround time for ATF approval due to no pingerprint and background check
• anyone named on the trust as a trustee is not committing a crime by possession or use of said firearm
• transfer taxes don't apply when settlor or trustee passes on and possession is moved to another named in the trust

Proposed changes to the NFA trust portions of the law as I understand them:

• purchase of a NFA firearm will require CLEO sign-off and fingerprints of all persons named in the trust. All will have to undergo the process as if they were undergoing the NFA approval process personally as opposed to being part of the trust as it now stands

My questions are as follows:

• what is the likelyhood that these changes will be confirmed and become law? (the ones selling trusts tell me that they are fairly certain it will pass...but they are trying to sell these trusts, so of course they will say that)
• if I can't afford both the trust AND a firearm (that this trust process is designed to be an umbrella for) prior to this legislation taking effect, is there any benefit of doing the trust now or waiting until I am ready to purchase the firearm? If I can only do one or the other at this time, does it even make sense to let this 'deadline' be a consideration?

The deadline should really only make a difference if you have a current Form 4 in process when/if the law changes. For example, if you have a Form 4 to a trust that has already been submitted, if the change goes into effect, then you should be exempt from the proposed change on the current Form 4, but not future Form 4s. It would/should be for Form 4s submitted on or after the date the proposed changes might take effect.

The ATF has to receive comments on proposed changes before actually enacting those changes. There were so many comments posted to the ATF regarding this proposed change (CLEO sign off on trusts) that I have heard the ruling will be postponed for several months while all comments are reviewed. As for likelihood the changes will become law - anyone's guess is as good is anyone else's. If you want to be safe, establish the trust and buy the firearm now, and start the transfer process before the changes might take place.

TBM

[RogueUSMC]

June I am told it the deadline...they put a stay on the changes pending discussion. From what I can tell, the shutdown in the fall played into the delay quite a bit...lol.

I just can't afford the cost of the trust...the cost of the gun... and the cost of the stamp all at the same time right now. The cost of the trust puts me over budget. So it looks to me like establishing the trust now or later makes no difference if it will be later when a purchase happens? If there is no difference, I will keep the cost of the trust in my pocket and maybe let that money work for me until I decide to pull the trigger on the whole shooting match.

Thank you for your input!

[tomneal]

The primary reason to have a NFA Trust is to avoid the CLEO sign off. In Harris County, it is nearly impossible for a regular person like me.

If this new BATFE NFA rule changes is adopted, I'd like to see the Legislature REQUIRE the CLEO sign offs. (This is the law in Tennessee.)

[RogueUSMC]

The primary benefits for me is not the CLEO sign-off (as my county is very gun friendly) but the fact that the named trustees (my wife and daughter) would legally have access to the weapons and the smooth transfer of said weapons to an heir. If I go the personal route, I am the only one that can legally possess it. With the trust in place, I can go out of town and leave the weapon accessible to my wife and daughter without any laws being broken.

But that leads me to another question. Let's say I go the personal route and purchase a NFA firearm and leave it in my wife's possession when I go out of town. Who will have a problem with it? Everything I read is that the feds are the only ones that really care. Kinda like the CHL in a GFSZ maybe...a federal LEO would be the one to make an arrest on the federal law. My impression is that the ATF would have to descend on my house for whatever reason before my wife would be charged with unauthorized possession of a controlled firearm?

[TomsTXCHL]

Let's say I go the personal route and purchase a NFA firearm and leave it in my wife's possession when I go out of town. Who will have a problem with it? Everything I read is that the feds are the only ones that really care. Kinda like the CHL in a GFSZ maybe...a federal LEO would be the one to make an arrest on the federal law. My impression is that the ATF would have to descend on my house for whatever reason before my wife would be charged with unauthorized possession of a controlled firearm?

It's been my understanding that the only true-to-life way your wife would get into trouble is if she took the gun out to a range and got crosswise with (any) LEO there, or (maybe) had it in her vehicle and was stopped/searched for another reason.

As for "in storage" I'd think you'd have to have a "friend" or neighbor or acquaintance who was familiar with your situation, wanted to cause trouble for you, and had his own ATF friend to cause trouble for your wife. IMO the BATF has a lot more valuable things to do with their time than to pursue such a thing and that the odds against trouble in this scenario would be astronomical.

In any case the best reason for a trust IMO is not the CLEO sign-off but rather the peace-of-mind that would come with adding your immediate family members as legal possessors, for the Gun Range scenario and then of course the "you get hit by a Mack truck" scenario where they've just become responsible for your guns.

[RogueUSMC]

In any case the best reason for a trust IMO is not the CLEO sign-off but rather the peace-of-mind that would come with adding your immediate family members as legal possessors, for the Gun Range scenario and then of course the "you get hit by a Mack truck" scenario where they've just become responsible for your guns.

Bingo...this is why I will be establishing a trust either way. But I may keep the cost of the trust in my pocket until I can afford the gun being as it looks like it won't make much of a difference. Who knows, once the changes take effect, folks may think the trusts aren't worth it driving the price of them down...lol