TexasCHLforum.com

From the Fort Worth Star-Telegram

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/11/17 ... .html?rh=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


edited to correct URL that did work, originally, to one that should work from now on. Thanks baldE

If the majority of OC'ing "enthusiasts" were a tad more mature, there would be a lot less of an issue. There's a LOT of people in that group that don't really think before they act, or they purposefully try to get a reaction out of people.

If you're going to OC a long gun, be smart about it. Getting into someone's face, being boisterous, looking for an argument and, to a certain extent, dressing like a third-class citizen while doing it only hurts us and perpetuates the "redneck gun owner" image.

I am 100% for OC rights, and I'll OC a handgun in the summer if we ever get it passed. But OC'ing a long gun, especially when emotions are very high and we're VERY divided over this issue, is usually at most going to get a neutral reaction and will VERY rarely get a positive reaction, and that will usually be from a fellow gun owner who is already pro-OC. The majority of responses are going to be negative, and with every negative response comes a potential letter to a politician arguing for the other side.

IMHO, doing it quietly and outside of the public view is the best way to do it. Don't frighten the horses.

I am concerned OC would stimulate a lot more 30.06 signs on businesses in our large cities where business owners will not want the fall out from customers. I would rather be able to carry in concealed and not have the right to OC than to have OC only to lose the permission to carry into many businesses at all. A friend who lives in Oklahoma told me the signs keeping guns out of businesses there sprang up overnight when OC was passed. Would like to see some kind of statistics on it.

I'm against open carry for 2 reasons

1: If a bad guy sees a gun he knows who is armed and is likely to take out the gun carrier immediately. open carry lose the element of surprise
2: like TexasGal says the anti crowd will put up no guns signs and weaken those of us who carry. Making a license to carry less useful

Also the idiots that took rifles into Star Buck did more harm than good. By making Star Buck mad and making us look irresponsible
Buy from Star Buck and pay with 2 dollar bills. Bring in your NRA thermos and have it filled
this won't stir up the anti crowd and it will get a point across. Please use your head before taking action.

I am of two minds on this issue.
1. OC would be nice if I am running around my rural neck of the woods. Not so much walking downtown Dallas.
2. I think OC of a handgun is much less alarming to the general public than OC of a long gun. If OC were passed it might take the spot light off the long gun OC idiots.
3. I would continue to conceal 99% of the time as I feel in gives me the advantage in a life or death situation. I do not feel that OC would be a deterrent to criminals, it would just tell them who to target first.
4. I do not want to do anything that would result in more 30.06 signs going up. Even if OC were not tied to 30.06, I still believe that once guns became more visible business owners would over react and 30.06 signs would go up left and right.

Given the choice, I would rather see CHL holders afforded the same privileges as off duty LEO than the passage of OC. IMHO this has as much chance of passing as OC does (slim to none).

Your link didn't work for me. This one should: http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/11/17 ... ed-on.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can see both sides of the argument. At the end of the day no one knows what will happen in the future until it does. When the OC crowd hurts or helps the 2A movement is debatable and will be until some concrete evidence is adduced.

I understand all the tactical and cultural sensitivity issues involved, but the bottom line is bearing arms is a constitutional right that shall not be infringed.

IMHO it's only an issue here in Texas because we have made it illegal. I grew up in a state where OC was legal and I almost never saw anyone OCing. We have created this problem, it's time to do the right thing and legalize OC (and Bowie knives while we are at it).

stevem wrote:I understand all the tactical and cultural sensitivity issues involved, but the bottom line is bearing arms is a constitutional right that shall not be infringed.

IMHO it's only an issue here in Texas because we have made it illegal. I grew up in a state where OC was legal and I almost never saw anyone OCing. We have created this problem, it's time to do the right thing and legalize OC (and Bowie knives while we are at it).

But doing the right thing requires Legislative action. That action today is thwarted by a minority of the Legislature who is granted extraordinary power by the politically powerful in order to maintain their power. It will take some exception event to break the cycle. Texas is headed the same direction as many other States where the populous centers are solidly Liberal and anti-gun and are slowly usurping control of the State level politics. That is not a prescription for correcting the Constitutional infringements.

chasfm11 wrote: But doing the right thing requires Legislative action. That action today is thwarted by a minority of the Legislature who is granted extraordinary power by the politically powerful in order to maintain their power. It will take some exception event to break the cycle. Texas is headed the same direction as many other States where the populous centers are solidly Liberal and anti-gun and are slowly usurping control of the State level politics. That is not a prescription for correcting the Constitutional infringements.

We have a fix for that in Texas, it's called Gerrymandering.

The Starbucks OCers are a symptom, the disease is 2A infringement. The cure is organizing at the local level and sending the right leaders to the state legislature.

We've spent the past full seven (7) summers in OC states and it ain't no big deal. I suspect in all seven summers, I might have seen seven OC who weren't LEO. Even where legal, it apparently just ain't done...at least where we've been in Colorado, Montana and even rural Virginia.

I do not OC but I must admit that I'm not too concerned about who might see my CC in those states.

stevem wrote:I understand all the tactical and cultural sensitivity issues involved, but the bottom line is bearing arms is a constitutional right that shall not be infringed.

IMHO it's only an issue here in Texas because we have made it illegal. I grew up in a state where OC was legal and I almost never saw anyone OCing. We have created this problem, it's time to do the right thing and legalize OC (and Bowie knives while we are at it).

Welcome to the Forum Steven.

While I agree that carrying firearms in any fashion is protected by the U.S. Constitution, our opinions don't matter. It is not yet a constitutional right and that day will come only when at least 5 Supreme Court justices agree with our opinion. Open-carry supporters have long made this claim even resorting to calling open-carry "constitutional carry." Overstating one's legal authority doesn't help.

Texas has never made open-carry illegal. Carrying of all handguns has generally been prohibited since Reconstruction, with narrow exceptions. In 1995, we passed our concealed carry statute and required that handguns be kept concealed. Ironically, rabid anti-gunners pushed hard for a requirement to carry handguns openly because they knew the backlash that would result. Thanksfully, that proposal was defeated. The Motorist Protection Act passed in 2007 allowing people to carry handguns in cars without a CHL. This law also requires that the gun not be "in plain view."

As the article noted, the primary dispute among gun owners deals with the tactics used to pass open-carry. While I'm concerned with the in-your-face tactics of OCT, I'm even more concerned with the actual bills that have been filed to achieve open-carry. They have been too broad and even amend TPC §30.06, although Rep. Lavender's Bill in 2013 had a committee substitute that fixed the 30.06 problem.

Chas.

stevem wrote:

chasfm11 wrote: But doing the right thing requires Legislative action. That action today is thwarted by a minority of the Legislature who is granted extraordinary power by the politically powerful in order to maintain their power. It will take some exception event to break the cycle. Texas is headed the same direction as many other States where the populous centers are solidly Liberal and anti-gun and are slowly usurping control of the State level politics. That is not a prescription for correcting the Constitutional infringements.

We have a fix for that in Texas, it's called Gerrymandering.

The Starbucks OCers are a symptom, the disease is 2A infringement. The cure is organizing at the local level and sending the right leaders to the state legislature.

You get to Gerrymander once a decade and that's if the federal courts don't get involved as they have in Texas in the last two decades. Do you really think that we aren't organizing at the local level now? Do you believe that there is some gold mine of voters who we have not tapped? While you are technically correct, your statement implies that we political activists haven't been trying to do precisely what you propose. You couldn't be more wrong!

Chas.

Thanks for the welcome Chas.

I'm really not inferring anything. Organizing at the local level is the cure, period.

My further suggestion is that instead of displaying "outrage" at OC activists, people concerned about 2A rights should recognize these events as justified blowback from unjust laws and redouble efforts to send the right people to the legislature and repeal them.

stevem wrote:Thanks for the welcome Chas.

I'm really not inferring anything. Organizing at the local level is the cure, period.

My further suggestion is that instead of displaying "outrage" at OC activists, people concerned about 2A rights should recognize these events as justified blowback from unjust laws and redouble efforts to send the right people to the legislature and repeal them.

Work smarter, not harder.