Open carry by two women at Walmart

[philip964]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

[Beiruty]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

The Sherif is Pro 2nA, but had to explain whey his guys were called on the scene.

[Keith B]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

The Sherif is Pro 2nA, but had to explain whey his guys were called on the scene.

Was the police chief of Marshfield. Marshfield is a small town northeast of Springfield, MO on I-44. While Missouri is open carry as a state, individual municipalities can set ordinances prohibiting it. Marshfield doesn't have one, but several do. But, as you can see, open carry on private property can definitely be restricted and Walmart wanted them to leave. Many stores will not confront someone if they want you to not open carry and will let the LEO's deal with it. They were not arrested, but they were checked out and asked to not go back in carrying openly.

And, while Missouri has always been a legal open carry state, you can see why it is rarely practiced.

[E.Marquez]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

The Sherif is Pro 2nA, but had to explain whey his guys were called on the scene.

Was the police chief of Marshfield. Marshfield is a small town northeast of Springfield, MO on I-44. While Missouri is open carry as a state, individual municipalities can set ordinances prohibiting it. Marshfield doesn't have one, but several do. But, as you can see, open carry on private property can definitely be restricted and Walmart wanted them to leave. Many stores will not confront someone if they want you to not open carry and will let the LEO's deal with it. They were not arrested, but they were checked out and asked to not go back in carrying openly.

And, while Missouri has always been a legal open carry state, you can see why it is rarely practiced.

The part I found interesting and need to research is when the Chief stated if a third part was alarmed, (starting at vid tape second :32 or so) it was considered a "peace disturbance".

while that is the reality in much of Texas, we know that the law states otherwise here (displayed with intent calculated to cause alarm).. What does MO law state?
Does MO law say if ANYONE is alarmed,,, the armed person is now in violation ??

[Keith B]

The part I found interesting and need to research is when the Chief stated if a third part was alarmed, (starting at vid tape second :32 or so) it was considered a "peace disturbance".

while that is the reality in much of Texas, we know that the law states otherwise here (displayed with intent calculated to cause alarm).. What does MO law state?
Does MO law say if ANYONE is alarmed,,, the armed person is now in violation ??

Here is the statute

Peace disturbance--penalty.
574.010. 1. A person commits the crime of peace disturbance if:

(1) He unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons by:
(a) Loud noise; or
(b) Offensive language addressed in a face-to-face manner to a specific individual and uttered under circumstances which are likely to produce an immediate violent response from a reasonable recipient; or
(c) Threatening to commit a felonious act against any person under circumstances which are likely to cause a reasonable person to fear that such threat may be carried out; or
(d) Fighting; or
(e) Creating a noxious and offensive odor;
(2) He is in a public place or on private property of another without consent and purposely causes inconvenience to another person or persons by unreasonably and physically obstructing:
(a) Vehicular or pedestrian traffic; or
(b) The free ingress or egress to or from a public or private place.
2. Peace disturbance is a class B misdemeanor upon the first conviction. Upon a second or subsequent conviction, peace disturbance is a class A misdemeanor. Upon a third or subsequent conviction, a person shall be sentenced to pay a fine of no less than one thousand dollars and no more than five thousand dollars.

It's a stretch, but the case could be made. Not much different than Texas and making that argument. Would have to be proven, but it would cost you to beat it.

[SewTexas]

OK, I read the law differently than the chief does...it doesn't say "if a person is alarmed" then there is a problem it says

(1) He unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons by:

to me that means the carrier "knowingly" alarms someone. that means he does something on purpose to cause alarm, that's got to be more than just carrying the gun, it could be putting his hand on it, or whatever, but he's got to actually do something "unreasonable" and "knowingly"....that's what it says....it doesn't say, "wellllll, you can carry unless someone is afraid of the gun"

[Keith B]

OK, I read the law differently than the chief does...it doesn't say "if a person is alarmed" then there is a problem it says

(1) He unreasonably and knowingly disturbs or alarms another person or persons by:

to me that means the carrier "knowingly" alarms someone. that means he does something on purpose to cause alarm, that's got to be more than just carrying the gun, it could be putting his hand on it, or whatever, but he's got to actually do something "unreasonable" and "knowingly"....that's what it says....it doesn't say, "wellllll, you can carry unless someone is afraid of the gun"

It all boils down to intent. The police and Walmart can argue that they were unreasonable in wearing handguns openly in around the store and they knew the presence of a gun would knowingly alarm people. If the store or a person in the store calls and you respond, you do not know the mental state and intentions of the people until you talk to them and determine they are not a threat. That is what happened in this case. It was determined they were NOT a threat, but Walmart did not want them open carrying in the store. The Chief told them they were welcome to go back in, but had to leave their handguns in the car per Walmart's wishes. End of story.

EDIT TO ADD: I will also bet that Walmart and others start putting up 'no guns' signs. That will not stop concealed carry, but will make open carry off-limits in the stores.

[tbrown]

If a gun in a holster is "disturbing the peace" then police would be arresting armored car and bank guards.

That's all I have to say about enemies of the Second Amendment.

[K.Mooneyham]

If a gun in a holster is "disturbing the peace" then police would be arresting armored car and bank guards.

That's all I have to say about thinly disguised anti-RKBA arrests.

But, but, armored car and bank guards are TRAINED PROFESSIONALS!

[rbwhatever1]

I think it would be awesome if everyone in Wal-Mart had a firearm strapped on. Even the cashiers and door greeters. One may have to avoid the toy isle around Christmas time. Liberty in full view is worth the dangers of a minor Tickle Me Elmo shootout anyday...

[Oldgringo]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

The Sherif is Pro 2nA, but had to explain whey his guys were called on the scene.

Was the police chief of Marshfield. Marshfield is a small town northeast of Springfield, MO on I-44. While Missouri is open carry as a state, individual municipalities can set ordinances prohibiting it. Marshfield doesn't have one, but several do. But, as you can see, open carry on private property can definitely be restricted and Walmart wanted them to leave. Many stores will not confront someone if they want you to not open carry and will let the LEO's deal with it. They were not arrested, but they were checked out and asked to not go back in carrying openly.

And, while Missouri has always been a legal open carry state, you can see why it is rarely practiced.

I suspect that is the case in many OC states; e.g., Colorado and Montana.

[mamabearCali]

I will say here in seasonable Virginia...where I live I see an open carrier now about once a week and no one is visibly alarmed. I live in what is called now extreme suburbs (over 1/2 an hour from the city line). Quite honestly I am betting I am the only one who even notices. No one cares what anyone is carrying on their hips anymore.

[SewTexas]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

The Sherif is Pro 2nA, but had to explain whey his guys were called on the scene.

Was the police chief of Marshfield. Marshfield is a small town northeast of Springfield, MO on I-44. While Missouri is open carry as a state, individual municipalities can set ordinances prohibiting it. Marshfield doesn't have one, but several do. But, as you can see, open carry on private property can definitely be restricted and Walmart wanted them to leave. Many stores will not confront someone if they want you to not open carry and will let the LEO's deal with it. They were not arrested, but they were checked out and asked to not go back in carrying openly.

And, while Missouri has always been a legal open carry state, you can see why it is rarely practiced.

5 years ago in CO Springs I'd see men open carrying quite frequently. no alarms there.



I suspect that is the case in many OC states; e.g., Colorado and Montana.

[philip964]

Stupid question. The leather holsters that the Canadian Mounties carry on their hips that completely conceal the gun would that be: 1. Open carry with nothing to cause alarm? (since you cannot see a scary gun) 2. Concealed carry? (since the gun is completely concealed) 3. No different from regular open carry since some people will be alarmed by a leather holster whether they see a gun or not.

[chasfm11]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09 ... he-police/

More testing of Constitutional rights or seeing if you can get an interesting video at the expense of the police.

My assumption is that producing an ID is not required, but would you need to identify yourself if asked.

The Sherif is Pro 2nA, but had to explain whey his guys were called on the scene.

Was the police chief of Marshfield. Marshfield is a small town northeast of Springfield, MO on I-44. While Missouri is open carry as a state, individual municipalities can set ordinances prohibiting it. Marshfield doesn't have one, but several do. But, as you can see, open carry on private property can definitely be restricted and Walmart wanted them to leave. Many stores will not confront someone if they want you to not open carry and will let the LEO's deal with it. They were not arrested, but they were checked out and asked to not go back in carrying openly.

And, while Missouri has always been a legal open carry state, you can see why it is rarely practiced.

I suspect that is the case in many OC states; e.g., Colorado and Montana.

I remain curious about OK. What has happened since their OC law was passed? We were briefly in the State in July and I didn't see a single person OCing. We were around Great Salt Plains and Wakita so it wasn't a major urban area.

When I was making political phone calls during the last legislative session, I talked to the offices of several of the East Texas Legislature members. One them reported that their constituents believed in OC and were furious at Austin when it didn't pass again. I often wonder if this isn't an urban versus rural argument. The more dense the population, the less likely OC will be tolerated.