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Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a white

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:20 am
by The Annoyed Man
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/16/lets_ho ... _american/
Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a white American
There is a double standard: White terrorists are dealt with as lone wolves, Islamists are existential threats
BY DAVID SIROTA
As we now move into the official Political Aftermath period of the Boston bombing — the period that will determine the long-term legislative fallout of the atrocity — the dynamics of privilege will undoubtedly influence the nation’s collective reaction to the attacks. That’s because privilege tends to determine: 1) which groups are — and are not — collectively denigrated or targeted for the unlawful actions of individuals; and 2) how big and politically game-changing the overall reaction ends up being.

This has been most obvious in the context of recent mass shootings. In those awful episodes, a religious or ethnic minority group lacking such privilege would likely be collectively slandered and/or targeted with surveillance or profiling (or worse) if some of its individuals comprised most of the mass shooters. However, white male privilege means white men are not collectively denigrated/targeted for those shootings — even though most come at the hands of white dudes.
I post this in the Political Issues forum because it references mass shootings, which makes it at least peripherally related to RKBA, but also because it makes a huge moral equivalency, and laments the effects that pursuing terrorists might have on other agenda items for the left. I also post it because the eventual response of the left always seems to be: "devolve to charges of racial preferences when you've got nothing else in your quiver."

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:27 am
by gthaustex
TAM, I saw this article as well and had similar thoughts. I love this line from the article:
White privilege is knowing that even if the bomber turns out to be white, no one will call for your group to be profiled as terrorists as a result
Last time I checked, there were plenty of whites being called out as potential domestic terrorists by DHS, FBI and other alphabet soup agencies for being nothing more than veterans, religious, etc. That is certainly profiling based on association and nothing more.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 7:56 am
by CowboyEngineer
I wish they would make up their minds. One day conservative, white, libertarian, Christian, Tea Partiers are the biggest domestic threat going. The next day we are part of the privileged protected overlords. My wife is finding it hard to accessorize when she gets dressed in the morning.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 8:16 am
by Zen
gthaustex wrote:TAM, I saw this article as well and had similar thoughts. I love this line from the article:
White privilege is knowing that even if the bomber turns out to be white, no one will call for your group to be profiled as terrorists as a result
Last time I checked, there were plenty of whites being called out as potential domestic terrorists by DHS, FBI and other alphabet soup agencies for being nothing more than veterans, religious, etc. That is certainly profiling based on association and nothing more.
That may be true, but that's not the point of the quote. As a white male, I'm not going to start getting stared at by people thinking I may be a terrorist. The same is not true of a middle eastern man. I'm not going to draw the same concern when I walk into a 7-11 that a black teen would. As a white male, I will never know that feeling, at least in the U.S.

Most "whites" are not even aware of this "privilege" because they have not seen it.

This is not to say that all places and all people of color or middle-eastern appearance feel this everywhere they go, but it is definitely there.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:05 am
by The Annoyed Man
Zen wrote:
gthaustex wrote:TAM, I saw this article as well and had similar thoughts. I love this line from the article:
White privilege is knowing that even if the bomber turns out to be white, no one will call for your group to be profiled as terrorists as a result
Last time I checked, there were plenty of whites being called out as potential domestic terrorists by DHS, FBI and other alphabet soup agencies for being nothing more than veterans, religious, etc. That is certainly profiling based on association and nothing more.
That may be true, but that's not the point of the quote. As a white male, I'm not going to start getting stared at by people thinking I may be a terrorist. The same is not true of a middle eastern man. I'm not going to draw the same concern when I walk into a 7-11 that a black teen would. As a white male, I will never know that feeling, at least in the U.S.

Most "whites" are not even aware of this "privilege" because they have not seen it.

This is not to say that all places and all people of color or middle-eastern appearance feel this everywhere they go, but it is definitely there.
I understood the point of the article perfectly well. Here's where I differ from Salon: I don't hope he (or she) is white, black, purple, or green. I hope he/she is caught. It's a matter of misplaced priority. You say:
I'm not going to draw the same concern when I walk into a 7-11 that a black teen would. As a white male, I will never know that feeling, at least in the U.S.
IF you've never known that feeling, that's on you. Evidently, you've never walked into a bar in Harlem, 40 years ago, when you were the only white man for a mile in any direction. I have. I understand perfectly well the feeling that you're describing. It wasn't envy of my "privilege," it was hatred of my color. If I am better perceived for my whiteness by a 7/11 employee than a person of color would be perceived by that same employee, that is simply racism on the part of the employee. It has nothing whatever to do with whether or not I have privilege. I am bound by the same laws as any other person. I am held to the same standards of behavior as any other person. And in the eyes of God, I am held as any other believer. The perception of "white privilege" is exactly that—a perception. It isn't a fact. It says that whites benefit from the racism of the observer. What about when the 7/11 employee is black, and the white person still benefits? The problem is that this perceived "privilege" is used as a socialist club to beat white people into accepting some kind of guilt in these social transactions which is not properly theirs to bear. MY paternal ancestors came into this country from Norway and Great Britain via Canada on my father's side, and from France from my immigrant mother. One of my Norwegian ancestors spent a large part of the Civil War imprisoned at Andersonville after having been taken prisoner at Shilo in 1862. He nearly starved to death in a Confederate prison.......to bring about an end to slavery......before being liberated three years later in 1865. I simply refuse to accept the false charge of privilege. My answer is to counsel others to stop wallowing in the past, throw off their victimhood, and take advantage of the opportunities placed before them, instead of rejecting those opportunities because they are "too white" or some other nonsense. People may be born into lack of economic privilege, but they choose to remain in it.......and to not choose is to choose.

There are millions of white Americans born into wealth who grew up more privileged than I did, and millions more born into poverty who grew up less privileged than I did. There are black Americans born into wealth who grew up more privileged than I did, and black Americans who grew up less privileged than I did. The myth of privilege.......at least, it has been a myth since the abolishment of Jim Crow....is largely a matter of seizing opportunity. Some black Americans may feel that they are not as privileged as white Americans, but the fact is that they have access to all of the same privileges as anyone else. In fact, with regard to affirmative action initiatives, they have more privilege than I do. And the poorest black Americans live with far more privilege than millions of black Africans.

You're right.....I don't see it, but it isn't for lack of thinking about it. I've thought a LOT about it. I just draw a conclusion that is more grounded in reality than squishy feel-good concepts like "privilege," and my conclusions are apart from my own charitable activities. Just because I don't believe in "white privilege," that doesn't mean that I do not have compassion for those who are not as blessed as I am. And in larger terms, none of us is privileged. No amount of privilege will buy one's way into paradise. All wealth and worldly goods and station in life are worthless in eternal terms. How can one be any more privileged than to be a child of Almighty God? Any black brother in the Lord of mine, no matter how poverty stricken in life, is vastly more privileged than the richest white billionaire in the world who doesn't know Jesus.

Edited to add: the California neighborhood I left when I moved to Texas in 2006 was a primarily black neighborhood. My family was one of two white families for several blocks around. The neighborhood has been black since the homes were originally built in the late 1940s, and the families who lived in those homes—some of whom still live there—were middle class families with comfortable incomes. Conversely to that bar in Harlem I mentioned above, I was never made to feel anything but welcome in that neighborhood, and those people did not treat me any better or worse than their black neighbors. They were economically privileged, and confident in and proud of who they were. Which goes to my point: that the only "privilege" that counts is economic, and perceived "racial privilege" is a myth.....at least it is here in the U.S.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:24 am
by baldeagle
Zen wrote:That may be true, but that's not the point of the quote. As a white male, I'm not going to start getting stared at by people thinking I may be a terrorist.
Oh Good Lord, spare us the tripe. Go get some Aryan Nation tattoos and see if you don't get stared at. Start wearing biker clothes and riding a custom Harley and see if you don't get stared at. For that matter, dress up in your Sunday best and go to church and see if the liberals don't call you an extremist, a racist and a homophobe.
Zen wrote:The same is not true of a middle eastern man.
Baloney. I work with Middle Eastern men. NONE of them get stared at. Now board an airplane in Arab garb muttering Allahu Akbar over and over and looking around furtively and you're darn right. I'll be keeping an eye on you the whole flight. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the color of your skin or the place of your birth.
Zen wrote:I'm not going to draw the same concern when I walk into a 7-11 that a black teen would.
Again, baloney. Black teens walk in to 7-11's all over America without being profiled. Walk in with a hoodie pulled tight around your face and your hands in your pockets and even Jesse Jackson admits he's going to move to the other side of the aisle.
Zen wrote:As a white male, I will never know that feeling, at least in the U.S.
Then you need to get out more. It's not hard to understand the plight of people who have been discriminated against. You just have to get to know them and have them open up to you.
Zen wrote:Most "whites" are not even aware of this "privilege" because they have not seen it.
If you can't see it, did it ever occur to you that it might not exist?

White privilege is the biggest lie the left has ever told. It's the purest form of lie because it's not even based on a truth. Ask the poor white farmer in Arkansas how privileged he feels. Yet liberals would claim he is simply because of the color of his skin. If you can't see that's racism, you're not looking.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 9:43 am
by VMI77
Zen wrote: I'm not going to draw the same concern when I walk into a 7-11 that a black teen would
Maybe you should drop by the FBI webpage and check out the crime stats sometime. The fact is, black males are about 6% of the population and they commit anywhere from 40% to 80% of all crime in the US, depending on the specific category. If you consider the fact that most of this crime is committed by young black males in their teens and twenties, their participation in criminal activity is even more disproportionate. How much do people worry about Asian teens walking into a 7-11? When one particular group of people are something around 8-10 times more likely to commit a crime than the members of another group, it's foolish political correctness to pretend that as a group, both are equal threats. That said, I suspect that the criminally inclined of all races behave in similar fashion when they are about to engage in crime, so you look for those signs, not just at the race of the person. If I see Colin Noir I'm not going to be the least concerned, but if I see a muscled up black teen with gang tats and an attitude I'm not going to pretend they are equal threats because they have the same skin color.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:21 am
by anygunanywhere
TAM, BE, VMI77,

:tiphat: :tiphat: :tiphat:

Excellent posts.

Zen, I agree, you need to get out more.

Mrs. Anygunanywhere and I lived in the San Francisco Bay area for 8.5 years. In this mecca of peace, love, and diversity, we saw more overt racial, ethnic, religious, and all other discrimination than we ever saw living the rest of our lives in the South (Texas and South Carolina).

Your understanding of the world is not correct.

Anygunanywhere

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:44 am
by K.Mooneyham
I guess that liberal-progressive/leftist writer from Slate needs to turn on the TV, or perhaps take a look at some Internet news and see who the bombers really were...as it appears they were Chechens, not "white guys" in the standard use of the phrase...and perhaps Islamists, too.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:02 am
by VMI77
K.Mooneyham wrote:I guess that liberal-progressive/leftist writer from Slate needs to turn on the TV, or perhaps take a look at some Internet news and see who the bombers really were...as it appears they were Chechens, not "white guys" in the standard use of the phrase...and perhaps Islamists, too.

White enough for media purposes.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:18 am
by powerboatr
VMI77 wrote:
K.Mooneyham wrote:I guess that liberal-progressive/leftist writer from Slate needs to turn on the TV, or perhaps take a look at some Internet news and see who the bombers really were...as it appears they were Chechens, not "white guys" in the standard use of the phrase...and perhaps Islamists, too.

White enough for media purposes.
so they are not white but a mix of mongolian, turks, and other arab descendants . plus they were conquered by lots of other tribes,

a blurp from wiki for what its worth
"Outside Russia, countries with significant Chechen diaspora populations are Turkey, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and the Middle East (especially Jordan and Iraq, where they are mainly descendants of people who had to leave Chechnya during the Caucasian War (which led to the annexation of Chechnya by the Russian Empire around 1850) and the 1944 Stalinist deportation in the case of Kazakhstan."

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:29 pm
by Dadtodabone
As a white male, I will never know that feeling, at least in the U.S.
Driving down Imperial Hwy, circa 1969, heading for Isidore B. Dockweiler Beach State Park. This privileged white male felt really alone.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:40 pm
by psijac
Zen wrote:
gthaustex wrote:TAM, I saw this article as well and had similar thoughts. I love this line from the article:
White privilege is knowing that even if the bomber turns out to be white, no one will call for your group to be profiled as terrorists as a result
Last time I checked, there were plenty of whites being called out as potential domestic terrorists by DHS, FBI and other alphabet soup agencies for being nothing more than veterans, religious, etc. That is certainly profiling based on association and nothing more.
That may be true, but that's not the point of the quote. As a white male, I'm not going to start getting stared at by people thinking I may be a terrorist. The same is not true of a middle eastern man. I'm not going to draw the same concern when I walk into a 7-11 that a black teen would. As a white male, I will never know that feeling, at least in the U.S.

Most "whites" are not even aware of this "privilege" because they have not seen it.

This is not to say that all places and all people of color or middle-eastern appearance feel this everywhere they go, but it is definitely there.

I am Asian not white, and i never get profiled even after Virgina Tech. the Only time i ever caught stares was when i went to the mall with a white coworker and her 7 year-old half black son

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:57 pm
by The Annoyed Man
And they may be fair skinned, but they appear to be Muslim though. So the writer's wish not only did not come true, but he displayed some ignorance thinking that because a person is Muslim, they can't be white, or visa versa. Obviously, the author did not think these things all the way through. By his thinking, there must be no black Catholics, or no Chinese Jews.......which of course, there are all those kinds of people, all over the world. That's what happens when any religion gets to be over a thousand years old and spreads around the world. Leftist idiots.

Re: Salon.com: "Let’s hope the Boston Marathon bomber is a w

Posted: Sat Apr 20, 2013 12:10 am
by G26ster
The Annoyed Man wrote:And they may be fair skinned, but they appear to be Muslim though. So the writer's wish not only did not come true, but he displayed some ignorance thinking that because a person is Muslim, they can't be white, or visa versa. Obviously, the author did not think these things all the way through. By his thinking, there must be no black Catholics, or no Chinese Jews.......which of course, there are all those kinds of people, all over the world. That's what happens when any religion gets to be over a thousand years old and spreads around the world. Leftist idiots.
Sorry, no Chinese Jews! I confirmed this many years ago growing up in NYC. I asked the waiter at our local Chinese restaurant if they had Chinese Jews. He answered in his best English, "No, sorry, we have a Tomato Jews, Kumquat Jews, and Orange Jews, but we no have a Chinese Jews." Being Jewish myself, I learned something that day :biggrinjester: