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SWAT teams are being used to crack down on illegal shipments of whole milk, and to investigate white-collar crime.
The family dog is usually the first to get it, but 47 innocent people have died needlessly.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/ ... rdock?pg=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sue them!

I have read about several incidents over the years where "SWAT" has been used against the wrong house or for crimes where there is nothing life-threatening on the surface of it. They set up for "no-knock", team members in body armor inc. helmets "stack" outside the door, bust down the door with a battering ram, toss a flashbang inside, execute rapid entry, shoot barking family dog, slam everyone to the ground, "toss" the house...then not find what they are looking for, and quickly clear out without even so much as a sorry about that. I understand this stuff if they are going into a drug lord's house, or maybe an ACTUAL arms smuggler, but as stated about the raw milk thing...its true overkill.

It is getting very scary out there. Our civil liberties are under attack at every angle. I am terribly afraid we will descend into the lawlessness of lesser states on a greater level. We are well on our way. Having second amendemnt rights helps some, but as we have a large portion of our population that seems to believe that gov't is God we are in for a rough ride.

What's frightening about this is... well.... us. Many (most?) of us go about our daily lives armed; Even in our own homes. If all of a sudden your boor burst in and people began pouring in, wouldn't you drawn and immediately fire? I know I would. You aren't going to know that they are LEOs until after the fact.

My brother-in-law has found out how quickly I can respond twice. The first was when he lived with us. He came home late one night (about midnight or 1am) and, instead of coming inside he went out back to put the wheelie bins out. The wheelie bins were right outside my mother's bedroom and she heard a noise in the back yard. She alerted me, and I came out with gun drawn and a bright flashlight. Needless to say, my BIL was kinda freaked.

Another time, after he moved out and had his own place, he decided to come over for a visit. Unfortunately, he didn't call first to let us know he was coming over. The first we knew about it was when we heard the door being messed with. By the time the door opened, I was across the room, drawn, and aimed (safety still on but only a simple thumb flick away from going "hot"). My wife was also drawn and stayed back to shield the kids.

And this was family! If I hadn't recognized who it was, I'm 100% certain that I would have pulled the trigger on someone breaking into my house. If it turns out that it is LEOs, there are going to be multiple injured or dead people, probably myself among them (because I'm sure that cops are going to shoot back at someone shooting at them, even if the someone doesn't know they are cops).

Oh, and in case you are curious, my BIL now always calls or texts before coming over and always calls when he's at the door and about to come in.

Radley Balko wrote an excellent (but scary) publication on this several years back; I highly recommend reading it.
Executive Summary - http://www.cato.org/publications/white- ... ds-america" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Overkill: The Rise of Paramilitary Police Raids in America - http://www.cato.org/sites/cato.org/file ... r_2006.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

He still chronicles these things (and other libertarian issues) at his blog over on HuffPo. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/the-agitator" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It's not enough for us to simply read about these things and be outraged. We need to get involved in defending our civil liberties.

mamabearCali wrote:It is getting very scary out there. Our civil liberties are under attack at every angle. I am terribly afraid we will descend into the lawlessness of lesser states on a greater level. We are well on our way. Having second amendemnt rights helps some, but as we have a large portion of our population that seems to believe that gov't is God we are in for a rough ride.

Lets just say that I believe tyranny and official oppression may be much closer to home than Washington DC. After all, there are some HOA's that think they are God. All branches of government with paramilitary branches make me nervous. Especially when they seem to be immune from criminal charges.

2firfun50 wrote:
Lets just say that I believe tyranny and official oppression may be much closer to home than Washington DC. After all, there are some HOA's that think they are God. All branches of government with paramilitary branches make me nervous. Especially when they seem to be immune from criminal charges.

So the solution would seem to be make them liable for the damage they cause. You break into a persons house with no cause, cause mayhem, you pay. You get the wrong house, cause mayhem, you are liable. That would effectively curtail the Rambo-ing up of para military police units and might make them a bit more cautious. That with an end to no knock warrants would fix a good bit of this.

Edited to add, Since I live within 2 hours of DC it does not seem far away to me at all. I hate HOA's as well. My husband did not understand their tyranny fully till we moved in here (I tried to tell him). We will never again buy in a HOA.

mamabearCali wrote:Edited to add, Since I live within 2 hours of DC it does not seem far away to me at all. I hate HOA's as well. My husband did not understand their tyranny fully till we moved in here (I tried to tell him). We will never again buy in a HOA.

Heh. HOAs are fun to mess with. When my synagogue went looking for a new building, we found one in Forney. It's a semi-rural community and they have an HOA. The HOA tried to prevent us from buying the building. But the building had been built before the HOA existed and, per the owner's documentation, was not subject to the HOA. Needless to say, when our lawyers got done explaining things to the HOA and the residents, they weren't happy, but couldn't do a darn thing about it.

Now, 2 years later, we're the best, quietest neighbors they've ever had. Some of the local residents have even come to synagogue on Shabbat to see what it's like. And one of them now attends every Shabbat. Kinda funny how things work out.

mamabearCali wrote:

2firfun50 wrote:
Lets just say that I believe tyranny and official oppression may be much closer to home than Washington DC. After all, there are some HOA's that think they are God. All branches of government with paramilitary branches make me nervous. Especially when they seem to be immune from criminal charges.

So the solution would seem to be make them liable for the damage they cause. You break into a persons house with no cause, cause mayhem, you pay. You get the wrong house, cause mayhem, you are liable. That would effectively curtail the Rambo-ing up of para military police units and might make them a bit more cautious. That with an end to no knock warrants would fix a good bit of this.

Edited to add, Since I live within 2 hours of DC it does not seem far away to me at all. I hate HOA's as well. My husband did not understand their tyranny fully till we moved in here (I tried to tell him). We will never again buy in a HOA.

Yep, you got it. I'd sleep easier at night knowing that the government entity gets the civil liability and all individuals involved in the act (entry team and supervisors) be held criminally liable. No immunity for getting it wrong. Immunity when you get it right.

Yep, you got it. I'd sleep easier at night knowing that the government entity gets the civil liability and all individuals involved in the act (entry team and supervisors) be held criminally liable. No immunity for getting it wrong. Immunity when you get it right.

You can add immunity from prosecution for any homeowner who uses force (not violence) to defend themselves against any intrusion if the above circumstances are present. Wrong address? Wrong anything? any shots fired under those circumstances at homeowner, pets, house, etc. The homeowner rightfully defends themselves, thier pets, family, home, etc, and they go home with no fear of retaliation via the legal system.

I can't see how any bonafide peace officer wouldn't want to get it right down to the last 'T' with that. No more of the shootings of people, pets, etc and some "umm gee, sorry" afterwards.

Indiana or at least one state in that area has instituted something along these lines I think?

IMO........If you don't like how your local police department uses its resources then move.......I trust, respect and appreciate my Police department

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I have a problem with the police having real assault weapons...

it is the same as the military... only diff is the color of the uniform