TexasCHLforum.com

Do You Have A Responsibility To Fight?

From the article:

I feel a tremendous responsibility to write this article though I am a little apprehensive. Thinking about the possibility of rising up against our own government is a frightening thing for many of us. I am not Johnny Rambo and I will be the first to admit that I do not want to die. The reason I feel compelled to write this, however, is simply because I don’t think the average American is equipped with the facts. I feel that a lot of American citizens feel like they have no choice but to surrender their guns if the government comes for them. I blame traditional media sources for this mass brainwash and I carry the responsibility of all small independent bloggers to tell the truth. So my focus today is to lay out your constitutional rights as an American, and let you decide what to do with those rights.

Full article:

http://dcclothesline.wordpress.com/2013 ... -to-fight/

Anygunanywhere

Hopefully by the time they come for my guns plan B has already been activated and all they find is an empty house and an overdue mortgage.

jmra wrote:Hopefully by the time they come for my guns plan B has already been activated and all they find is an empty house and an overdue mortgage.

If they plan on taking away my means to protect my life, then there is no reason I should apprehensive about using those means when they arrive at my door. Once you are at peace with the fact that you can't escape death, the choice to not surrender your arms becomes easier. It may not be pretty, or heroic, or worthy of a hollywood story but I guarantee it will be bloody. I sincerely hope it never comes to that, if it does my choice has already been made. Besides, my knees are too bad to run, and I never was any good at "hide and seek".

jdhz28 wrote:

jmra wrote:Hopefully by the time they come for my guns plan B has already been activated and all they find is an empty house and an overdue mortgage.

If they plan on taking away my means to protect my life, then there is no reason I should apprehensive about using those means when they arrive at my door. Once you are at peace with the fact that you can't escape death, the choice to not surrender your arms becomes easier. It may not be pretty, or heroic, or worthy of a hollywood story but I guarantee it will be bloody. I sincerely hope it never comes to that, if it does my choice has already been made. Besides, my knees are too bad to run, and I never was any good at "hide and seek".

If it weren't for two young ones at home I would be taking the same stand. Plan B hopefully provides them with a fighting chance.

These are my thoughts thus far. I've been trying to think this scenario through for a while but have not put anything into words until now.

I don't think it's going to be straight up confiscation at this point. It's going to be tyranny by a thousand cuts. The first step is to outlaw as many firearms as possible, in as many steps as it takes.

So given that the next major step is likely semi-auto "assault rifles" being banned and existing ones requiring NFA registration:

If I do not register it's a huge risk. I'm not overly concerned at this point of house to house searches where they go in and confiscate, though if things continue in the way they have been, I would expect it in the future. Right now I am more concerned that I will never be able to use my guns in any practical sense. Moreover, the risk in transporting an assault rifle is huge, even if it's just to the local range.

With TSA and homeland security now arming themselves and setting up internal checkpoints, the probability of a stop and search increases. I could see myself getting pulled over while enroute to the range to simply play with my AR-15. Once they find I have a CHL and am armed, they search my vehicle for unregistered weapons and find one. And with that, off to the federal prison I go with no chance of fighting back or ever owning a gun again.

If I do register, they will simply swing by and confiscate it when the next mass shooting takes place. And another mass shooting will happen because none of these proposed nonsense laws will increase safety at all. It's just a matter of time.

I am still on the fence about what to do depending on what happens with legislation and then trying to predict the risks of compliance vs. civil disobedience. Right now there is not enough information for me to go one way or the other.

There is a saying on this forum, "You don't want to be the test case". I think it applies to gun confiscation as well. It seems obvious to me that the gun grabbers are looking forward for a test case. The one holdout who defends himself from gun confiscation by force maybe killing LEOs or himself or both in the process. Something tells me that will happen at some point if things continue the way they are. The act of taking the life of a law officer (or nearly anyone else) is absolutely detestable to me. I don't want to be forced to make a decision like that at all.

What guns? This house isn't that big but they would have to spend a long time doing a thorough search for these supposed "guns" I supposedly own. There is no gun registry in TX, and I didn't even buy the gun I carry (it was a gift).

If registration is implemented and you do not register, why would you take your unregistered AR out in public to a range to play?

I am trying to understand.

If we do not comply then we are criminals by definition.

I would think that one would not risk exposure until the weapons are needed for their intended purpose.

Anygunanywhere

First, remember the government does not know who has what.
That in it self makes it impossible for jack booted agents to take your guns.
If a registration on certain weapons is impossed as Finestien is proposing know one
will know if you complied or not. If not, you cannot take those firearms to the range anymore.
But when the law is over turned you can once again.

When it comes to giving your life, ask if you've anyone that depends on you.
I do not think our country will be disarmed. I also think that if it ever was there
are a lot of folks that SAY they'll shoot it out, but few will.

When multiple "Ruby ridge and Waco" inncidents occure, wait for organization of men
to start forming. Then join them. The government will not be stopped by a handful of men.
It will take millions. When massive "armed" marches start, join them.
Don't be the lone wolf if you have kids.

Patton said...make the other basturds die for their country.
OUR country CAN be taken back.
But don't think flying under the radar is a bad thing.
A dead guy who's assault rifles were confiscated cannot help the cause.
Let the cause get rolling first. Keep low, wait, be smart.
Hide your arms and ammo until their needed.

knotquiteawake wrote:What guns? This house isn't that big but they would have to spend a long time doing a thorough search for these supposed "guns" I supposedly own. There is no gun registry in TX, and I didn't even buy the gun I carry (it was a gift).

In the old days maybe...I think it depends on the resources they bring to bear. I suspect they could pull an x-ray van up alongside your house and find any guns there rather easily.

anygunanywhere wrote:If registration is implemented and you do not register, why would you take your unregistered AR out in public to a range to play?

Because right now nobody is asking if the guy on the public range with the full auto if it properly registered. Also not everyone in Texas lives on private land where they can shoot safely. Regardless if one goes to a private or public range (I actually shoot at a private one), it still means driving there and transporting the gun.

I'm gonna' tell 'em that I gave all of mine to a crotchety old guy in LaGrange. Sorry, I didn't catch his name.

Moby wrote:First, remember the government does not know who has what.
That in it self makes it impossible for jack booted agents to take your guns.
If a registration on certain weapons is impossed as Finestien is proposing know one
will know if you complied or not. If not, you cannot take those firearms to the range anymore.
But when the law is over turned you can once again.

When it comes to giving your life, ask if you've anyone that depends on you.
I do not think our country will be disarmed. I also think that if it ever was there
are a lot of folks that SAY they'll shoot it out, but few will.

When multiple "Ruby ridge and Waco" inncidents occure, wait for organization of men
to start forming. Then join them. The government will not be stopped by a handful of men.
It will take millions. When massive "armed" marches start, join them.
Don't be the lone wolf if you have kids.

Patton said...make the other basturds die for their country.
OUR country CAN be taken back.
But don't think flying under the radar is a bad thing.
A dead guy who's assault rifles were confiscated cannot help the cause.
Let the cause get rolling first. Keep low, wait, be smart.
Hide your arms and ammo until their needed.

Sorry, but I think you're wrong. They may not know for a certainty who has what, but, for example, they pretty much know for a certainty someone with a CHL is going to have at least one gun...and likely more. The Feds have also been monitoring the internet for years now, so everything anyone has purchased over the internet can be compiled for a pretty good picture of what you own. Even if they don't know specifically what you own, they may know you've got an MP 15-22 (because you bought a mag for it and have bought .22 ammo), a Springfield XD in .45 (cause you bought a Crimson Trace laser sight for it and have purchased .45 ammo), and .243 (bought a scope and ammo and hunting license), a .410 and and 12 ga (bought ammo, bought a hunting license), and a 1911 (because you bought a pack of new springs from Brownells). Places like Walmart, and the credit card companies, will probably turn over their records too, so they'll also have access to transactions made in person if you didn't pay cash. They may also require all dealers to turn in their 4473s.

VMI77 wrote:
Sorry, but I think you're wrong. They may not know for a certainty who has what, but, for example, they pretty much know for a certainty someone with a CHL is going to have at least one gun...and likely more. The Feds have also been monitoring the internet for years now, so everything anyone has purchased over the internet can be compiled for a pretty good picture of what you own. Even if they don't know specifically what you own, they may know you've got an MP 15-22 (because you bought a mag for it and have bought .22 ammo), a Springfield XD in .45 (cause you bought a Crimson Trace laser sight for it and have purchased .45 ammo), and .243 (bought a scope and ammo and hunting license), a .410 and and 12 ga (bought ammo, bought a hunting license), and a 1911 (because you bought a pack of new springs from Brownells). Places like Walmart, and the credit card companies, will probably turn over their records too, so they'll also have access to transactions made in person if you didn't pay cash. They may also require all dealers to turn in their 4473s.

Doing that kind of research on an individual may be possible, even likely if you commit a crime (such as shooting up a movie theater or school), but I believe it unlikely to be performed wide-scale on a few hundred million citizens. There simply aren't enough investigators to do something like that in a timely manner.

sjfcontrol wrote:

VMI77 wrote:
Sorry, but I think you're wrong. They may not know for a certainty who has what, but, for example, they pretty much know for a certainty someone with a CHL is going to have at least one gun...and likely more. The Feds have also been monitoring the internet for years now, so everything anyone has purchased over the internet can be compiled for a pretty good picture of what you own. Even if they don't know specifically what you own, they may know you've got an MP 15-22 (because you bought a mag for it and have bought .22 ammo), a Springfield XD in .45 (cause you bought a Crimson Trace laser sight for it and have purchased .45 ammo), and .243 (bought a scope and ammo and hunting license), a .410 and and 12 ga (bought ammo, bought a hunting license), and a 1911 (because you bought a pack of new springs from Brownells). Places like Walmart, and the credit card companies, will probably turn over their records too, so they'll also have access to transactions made in person if you didn't pay cash. They may also require all dealers to turn in their 4473s.

Doing that kind of research on an individual may be possible, even likely if you commit a crime (such as shooting up a movie theater or school), but I believe it unlikely to be performed wide-scale on a few hundred million citizens. There simply aren't enough investigators to do something like that in a timely manner.

Maybe, and you'd be right if there was no centralized data collection, but I think you underestimate their ingenuity and the current software, and the database creation that has been occuring. For one thing, they don't have to do it on a few hundred million citizens. They can flag certain transactions, set a simple score index, then burrow in. There aren't 300 million people buying guns and gun accessories. The scoring could be a simple flag count, to which they could apply a threshold: name-flag. I'm just making up numbers here, but say, a certain name-flag comes up once (where a flag is a purchase of any gun, accessory, or ammo) --it gets tallied and ignored, but if it keeps getting flagged, at some point it breaks a threshold....say 1,000 name-flags....then that person gets a deep search using the collation software and has his purchase history constructed. Maybe they've determined that it takes at least 1,000 name flags, or 5,000, for enough data to construct a reasonably accurate estimate of guns owned. They may know enough to know that certain purchases don't matter....that say, they only need to track ammo and magazine purchases, or ammo and sighting devices, etc, which further reduces the effort --depending on how well matches are correlated to construction of ownership.

And they can also use multi-flag tests. For example, they start with the database of CHL holders, then look for purchase flags, sorting out only those that cross the threshold. Or they could start with CHL holders with (or without) prior military service --depending on the political point they want to make. They could narrow it down further to CHL holders, prior military Special Operations experience, enlisted, NRA member --and just count flags on that group. Or they could start with that group and pick out certain states that haven't been "nice" to the administration. Texas, say, passes legislation that Texas LEO's won't enforce the Federal Gun law....so it becomes: CHL holders, prior mil spec ops, enlisted (or officer instead), NRA member, Texas resident. There are numerous way to cut down the effort....I do similar kinds of sorting in my own work to eliminate unmanageable results.

VM177 I agree with your assement.

Simply put they could use datamining techniques and powerful automated software to do all the work. By linking multiple databases to track purchases and other activity/NRA/CHL/etc. they can easily target gun owners by whatever criteria they decide.