So I visited the "Express Lane" at the Capitol today...

[ELB]

I was in Austin today for other things, so I decided to stop by the Capitol building and see the new CHL lanes in person. I had not yet been to the Capitol yet anyway, so figured it being the off-season, it wouldn't be crowded and I could wander around and gawk like a tourist without disruption by people trying to get things done.

I found an open metered space on Brazos street between the TWC buildings (which led me to wonder -- why does the TWC need two huge buildings right in front of -- or maybe it is back of -- the capitol ) and hiked up past the Peace Officers Memorial which took me in the north entrance. DPS officers outnumbered visitors -- there were about five or six of them, and just me and my wife. I think one other person walked in while we were talking with the cops and went through the metal detector. Nice quiet day.

Sure enough, there was a CHL sign to one side, so we went up a DPS guy CHL in hand, and he immediately surprised me by saying, "Do you have it on you?" I did and I said so. He said OK and handed my CHL to another trooper (actually I didn't read their shoulder patches but they dress like troopers). I had to suppress a giggle because it took him about 10 seconds to get the laptop computer open -- I guess this is new enough that not everyone has the routine down just yet. I didn't actually see him "swipe" my card because I was busy talking with the first guy --- I got the impression he tried, and then typed in some info. Guess he has my luck with card swipes.

While he was doing that I asked the first guy why it made a difference if I had my gun on me or not. He said if I didn't, he would send me over to the regular line because it would be faster, otherwise they have to check the licenses to make sure everything is up to snuff. This surprised me some more. While I was pondering this, the second trooper gave me my CHL back and took my wife's. It appeared to me that he also typed in some of her info as well, waited a few seconds, then handed it back and we were free to go in.

Based on this one entry, I am guessing that the swiping business may not be working out so well, and they are having type in either the number and/or name alot, which is naturally slower. If I don't have a gun on me, then I can go thru the regular line, which is faster --- for the guy typing in the info at least. Not sure it would be faster for me, since I'll bet my keys, knife, coins, beltbuckle, and all that would set off the alarm.

I wonder if all those lobbyists who are planning on getting a CHL but not carrying are in for a surprise when it comes to bypassing the regular line?

Had a nice self-guided tour of the Capitol building. The House chamber is closed for renovations, but the Senate chamber is open, and it was interesting to see the pix of the previous legislatures, and the two HUGE murals of the battles of the Alamo and San Jacinto. I was also interested in the portraits of all the previous Governors and Presidents that line the rotunda. It is a very nice building, impressive but not gaudy. The grounds are immaculate. Will go back for a guided tour some time, and see a few other sights.

[C-dub]

Very interesting. Thanks for the report ELB. I wonder what swiping the license tells them? I would think that if something wasn't up to snuff then the license would have been revoked. Might they be checking to make sure it is not a fake?

[ELB]

Very interesting. Thanks for the report ELB. I wonder what swiping the license tells them? I would think that if something wasn't up to snuff then the license would have been revoked. Might they be checking to make sure it is not a fake?

Mr. Cotton noted in another thread that they are checking the license against the Texas DPS database to make sure it is current/valid. I suspect a revocation probably takes awhile. It occurs to me I should have asked him what he would have done if I had had a Texas-recognized license from out of state, since that can't be validated against the DPS database.

[joe817]

Great report ELB! Thanks for sharing! We all now know what to expect.

And I agree. The huge murals of the battles of the Alamo and San Jacinto are truly awe inspiring. I got a shiver down my spine when I looked at them. Kinda makes you proud you're a Texan.

[UpTheIrons]

Great report, but you forgot one important question. What happens when we go with our kids (age 7 & 9)? Wife and I would go through the CHL line, but can our kids also come through there, or would they have to go through the "regular" line?

Inquiring minds and all...

We are planning on going up this summer sometime to take the kids through the capitol, and I'd like to know what the procedure is before we go.

[ELB]

Great report, but you forgot one important question...

I didn't forget -- I just didn't think of it, since I don't have kids. Dunno answer.

[stevie_d_64]

Very interesting. Thanks for the report ELB. I wonder what swiping the license tells them? I would think that if something wasn't up to snuff then the license would have been revoked. Might they be checking to make sure it is not a fake?

Mr. Cotton noted in another thread that they are checking the license against the Texas DPS database to make sure it is current/valid. I suspect a revocation probably takes awhile. It occurs to me I should have asked him what he would have done if I had had a Texas-recognized license from out of state, since that can't be validated against the DPS database.

You ask the $64 question...Our reciprocity, in my opinion, is being severely tested if you ask me...

The other thing, I am absolutely NOT IMPRESSED WITH AT ALL!!! Is the improper screening treatment being given to those of us with the "plastic"...I thought the "CHL Line" per the other thread, was supposed to be a similar and discrete line for capitol employees and elected officials...Per the other thread we were simply to show our CHL license, and continue on our way (business or tourist), without being questioned if we are actually "armed"...To which I say this is a stupid question to ask if we are presenting our license in compliance with state law...

Seems to me we are being required to "ask" permission to gain access to our house...When are our elected officials going to finally realize we are NOT the problem...I don't think I have to ask the two elected officials that represent me that question, they know who I am and where I am coming from...And the fact they know that it is very likely I am armed in compliance with state law, that does not come to a point of dissagreement or discussion in our meetings...

I am offended by this "solution" from every conceivable angle...

Seems to me this is a line designed to discourage us from staying armed, and discretion went out the window...The fact that the personnel who are manning the "special line" tell us that the "regular line" will be quicker, if we weren't armed, is a clear indication that CHL's are not welcome at the state capitol, and that we are going to be severely scrutinized (and more importantly, identified) in front of other guests in the "other" line for being armed in the capitol building, in violation of state law!!!

Something is wrong with this picture, and I have no reason to not believe or question the validity of the original post in this thread...

I'm sorry if I appear to be harsh on this issue, but it appears we may seriously need to question the "solution" the "nervous ninnies" implemented in OUR OWN HOUSE!!!

Or maybe someone needs to tell me I am wrong on this, and tell me I am making a mountain out of a molehill...

I promise to be nice and respectful as always, and open to where I may be wrong in my analysis of this revelation by one of our participants in this website...

[stevie_d_64]

By the way...If we are to be specially treated, and given indiscrete scrutiny in a special line, while others (in view) are in another line...

Then if this is accepted by the CHL community in general, then I believe it is only fair, and prudent, dispite my reservations to the overall issue of the carrying of a firearm for lawful self defense in this state, that if we are to be treated like this for jumping through the state hoops, per the law...

Then I believe it should not be illegal to carry openly in this state...To remove all doubt and suspision about our purpose as citizens of this state...

I thought I was for the option to carry openly, and I believe this is absolutely imperative and necessary now that they have implemented this "solution' which in my opinion is a violation of the law in this state...

We were supposed to be able to carry discretely, and our capability was supposed to be confidential...This system apparently violates those provisions in the law, in my opinion...

Now...Not to be empty of the obvious ramifications of my opinion...I still have my reservations about open carry in this state, but if they are going to change the rules, just because, then I believe my position is a valid one, not requiring any special need to form a consensus of "private group" to lobby the state to change the law, since they obviously have broken the law in my opinion by treating CHL'ers with a lack of discretion and special screening, in view of the public...

I was not looking to change anything which went against the grain of the overall consensus of opinions by the participants of this forum, but reality has stepped in and challenged all of us to look at this as harshly as they are going to treat us at the state capitol as law-abiding citizens of this state...

Again, I will be extremely respectful and open to the idea that I may be wrong, but be prepared to explain to me, based upon this report, by a member of this forum, that this is not a violation by the state, of the law...

[ELB]

...
Or maybe someone needs to tell me I am wrong on this, and tell me I am making a mountain out of a molehill...

Yes I think this is making a mountain out of a molehill.

Within the constraints of having a CHL law at all, I think the legislature came up with an good solution. Frankly, far from trying to discourage CHLs and being armed, I think they went out of their way to come up with an armed CHL-friendly solution. They could have just hung a 30.06 sign on the whole dang building and been done with it, since there are governmental meetings going on a great deal of time anyway. (Altho the legislature as a whole is not in session, various committees are meeting and holding hearings in the "off-season;" I saw the calender of those meetings posted in the hallways.) Or at the next session just add the Capitol to the list of off-limits places, just like a court. Believe me, EITHER of those options would have be much more detrimental to gun owners in general and CHL in particular than having a separate line and asking me if I am armed.

To me it seemed that the cop simply wanted me to go thru the fastest way possible, as it appeared the scanning business wasn't operating as fast as they would like. They either need to improve their reader, their connection, or maybe just take the plastic at face value like most cops do. I suspect this is what will happen in the long run anway, after they have had time to get used to it, and as usual, "nothing happens" when you let armed CHL'ers run around. Which has been the case to date anyway, before the metal detectors.

Or the other possibility is the DPS has read about all the lobbyists saying they will get CHLs just to bypass the regular line when it gets long, without ever actually carrying, and maybe they see that as an abuse of the system; i.e. the line is set up to assist armed CHL'ers to gain entry, not for the convenience of 3000 lobbyists. Of course the lobbyists could lie about being armed, but even though it is probably not a crime to do so, I suspect most would be wary of (getting caught somehow) lying to a DPS trooper. I'll bet lobbyists are keenly protective about their reputations around the Capitol, and getting caught lying to the security force would probably not enhance their reps with anyone.

Would I like Texas law to reflect that citizens not convicted of violent crime should be able to CC or OC without a permit from the state? Sure. But the CHL line at the Capitol is not the place to fall on your sword about gun rights.

[Mike1951]

I agree completely with Stevie.

This is no less objectionable than entering through a metal detector and being red badged to enter City of Houston buildings.

It's also too similar to what it was taking to enter the State Fair.

Instead of quiet acceptance there should be a huge outcry. Where is it?

I certainly won't be visiting the Capitol.

[UpTheIrons]

Great report, but you forgot one important question...

I didn't forget -- I just didn't think of it, since I don't have kids. Dunno answer.

Oh well. No harm, no foul. I'll just have to make a trip myself! It has been too long since I've been in the capitol, anyways.

[Douva]

FYI, if you're planning a trip to the Capitol this summer, it's going to be under heavy renovation, so you may not be able to see the galleries or other key attractions.

As for the metal detectors, I think state officials are going out of their way to allow CHL holders to enter the building armed. But their strategy sucks. Having CHL holders walk through a special line marked "CHL" flies in the face of concealed carry. The strategy, as originally stated, was to allow CHL holders to enter through the staff entrance. That would have been much more discrete and, for me, much less objectionable.

[ELB]

I just ran across another account similar to mine at the blog The Lawdog Files (see comment posted by "Reub"). It tends to support my supposition that the business of checking the CHL against the DPS CHL database has kinks in it and is not fast enough yet. I think this is encouraging the officers to send people through the regular line since it is presumably faster, and hence the question about whether I was armed (the poster I referenced was also asked this). This needs to be worked out before they start getting large crowds again, it shouldn't take more than a few seconds to do this. One way to speed it up would be to drop the computer check altogether, of course...

Some details need to be worked, but the basic strategy is sound, and it supports the basic rights -- let the armed good guys in and keep the armed bad guys out -- instead of just banning guns altogether, which is pretty much the instinctive reaction of governments the world over. A line marked "CHL", especially one that is used by state employees and legislators and cops as well is not a big deal. The law says you can carry concealed, it doesn't guarantee "covert" carry.

[joe817]

Well, I'd say with any new procedures that the "staff" is not familiar with, there will be bugs to work out. the troopers need to be trained adequately on the new procedures. Then I'm sure all will be smoothed out.

One of the posters made a VERY funny comment. He's not from Texas. :

"SteveC said...
If you Texans ever get around to fixing that 130 degree in the shade problem, I would immigrate in a heartbeat. My needs are simple. When I pick up a gun that has been lying on an uncovered shooters bench for 15 min, I don't want it to burn my hand and I don't want the gun to freeze to my hand."

[Douva]

A line marked "CHL", especially one that is used by state employees and legislators and cops as well is not a big deal. The law says you can carry concealed, it doesn't guarantee "covert" carry.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the situation. Is this a "CHL Only" line or a staff/employee line with a sign indicating that CHL holders should also use that line? I don't care if the people standing behind me in line see me showing my CHL to a state trooper; I just don't want one line to be a CHL holder viewing gallery.

Also, I liked the strategy much better when CHL holders weren't going to be required to say if they were armed. That way, anyone who saw you flashing your CHL would simply know that you have the license but have no way of knowing if you are actually packing or just taking advantage of the "express lane."