President Biden is set to unveil a 'long-awaited executive action on guns,' which is expected to include background checks for owners of so-called ghost guns - which are typically homemade or makeshift firearms that lack serial numbers.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:24 pm
by Jusme
Whatever he has been smoking I want a double helping!!!
Ok, lets go through this. Say I still owned an 80% lower (tragic boating accident), There is no serial #, no way to know that I have it, but the government is somehow going to find me, and force me to have a background check? But, let's assume that happens. Then what? My 80% lower still has no serial #, How will they know that I didn't trade my 80% lower for one that TAM used to own? (he said he's never getting in a boat with me again)
Why don't they just have everyone in the country pass a background check, and then they can have any "ghost guns' that they want?
Whatever he has been smoking I want a double helping!!!
Ok, lets go through this. Say I still owned an 80% lower (tragic boating accident), There is no serial #, no way to know that I have it, but the government is somehow going to find me, and force me to have a background check? But, let's assume that happens. Then what? My 80% lower still has no serial #, How will they know that I didn't trade my 80% lower for one that TAM used to own? (he said he's never getting in a boat with me again)
Why don't they just have everyone in the country pass a background check, and then they can have any "ghost guns' that they want?
See? I'm a problem solver that way.
Well. I have a LTC, so I only have to look at it if I make one.
Whatever he has been smoking I want a double helping!!!
Ok, lets go through this. Say I still owned an 80% lower (tragic boating accident), There is no serial #, no way to know that I have it, but the government is somehow going to find me, and force me to have a background check? But, let's assume that happens. Then what? My 80% lower still has no serial #, How will they know that I didn't trade my 80% lower for one that TAM used to own? (he said he's never getting in a boat with me again)
Why don't they just have everyone in the country pass a background check, and then they can have any "ghost guns' that they want?
See? I'm a problem solver that way.
I expect one purpose of the raids on manufacturers is to obtain their list of customers.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm
by philip964
Anyone been hurt or killed by a ghost gun?
Or is this all posturing?
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:30 pm
by Paladin
philip964 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm
Anyone been hurt or killed by a ghost gun?
Or is this all posturing?
Authoritarians worldwide are hurt by "ghost guns"... They want all the power for themselves.
Per Tragedy and Hope:
In Western Civilization, however, the Agricultural Revolution after 1725 raised standards of living, while the Industrial Revolution after 1800 so lowered the cost of firearms that the ordinary citizen of western Europe and of North America could acquire the most
effective weapon existing (the musket). As a result of this, and other factors, democracy came to these areas, along with mass armies of citizen-soldiers.
...In 1830 democracy was growing rapidly in Europe and in America. At that time the development of weapons had reached a point where governments could not get weapons which were much more effective than those which private individuals could get. Moreover, private individuals could obtain good weapons because they had a high enough standard of living to afford it (as a result of the Agricultural Revolution) and such weapons were cheap (as a result of the Industrial Revolution)...As a result, governments in Europe in 1830 hardly dared to oppress the people, and democracy was growing; but in the non-European world by 1930 (and even more by 1950) governments did dare to, and could, oppress their [unarmed] peoples, who could do little to prevent it.
...We have already mentioned that effective weapons which are difficult to use or expensive to obtain encourage the development of authoritarian regimes in any society.
...In a period of specialist weapons the minority who have such weapons can usually force the majority who lack them to obey; thus a period of specialist weapons tends to give rise to a period of minority rule and authoritarian government. But a period of amateur weapons[i.e. firearms] is a period in which all men are roughly equal in military power, the majority can compel a minority to yield, and majority rule or even democratic government tends to rise. . . . But after 1800, guns became cheaper to obtain and easier to use. By 1840, a revolver sold for $27 and a Springfield musket for not much more, and these were about as good weapons as anyone could get at that time. Thus, mass armies of citizens, equipped with these cheap and easily used weapons, began to replace armies of professional soldiers, beginning about 1800 in Europe and even earlier in America. At the same time, democratic government began to replace authoritarian governments (but chiefly in those areas where the cheap new weapons were available and local standards of living were high enough to allow people to obtain).
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 2:32 pm
by Jusme
philip964 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 1:53 pm
Anyone been hurt or killed by a ghost gun?
Or is this all posturing?
This is a solution looking for a problem. The power grabbers, don't like anything they can't control. Very few guns are left at crime scenes. Stolen guns can't be "traced". Guns with serial numbers filed off can't be "traced". They have simply come up with a scary term, and then set out to outlaw them. This will not reduce homicides, stop criminals from getting guns, or anything else, they claim it will do.
Whatever he has been smoking I want a double helping!!!
Ok, lets go through this. Say I still owned an 80% lower (tragic boating accident), There is no serial #, no way to know that I have it, but the government is somehow going to find me, and force me to have a background check? But, let's assume that happens. Then what? My 80% lower still has no serial #, How will they know that I didn't trade my 80% lower for one that TAM used to own? (he said he's never getting in a boat with me again)
Why don't they just have everyone in the country pass a background check, and then they can have any "ghost guns' that they want?
See? I'm a problem solver that way.
Thanks for this. I needed a good laugh.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:03 pm
by srothstein
I am curious how he will define what is a ghost gun to require background checks. If he claims it is a lower than is 80% finished, I predict an immediate change in lowers to sell them at 75% done. I don't know how you decide that percentage anyway.
I can just see this. Anyone who wants to buy any blocks of metal or any home milling equipment must pass a background check. That will really help kick start our economy, wouldn't it?
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:08 pm
by cirus
Laws and rules are made for those that will obey them.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:42 pm
by ScottDLS
srothstein wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:03 pm
I am curious how he will define what is a ghost gun to require background checks. If he claims it is a lower than is 80% finished, I predict an immediate change in lowers to sell them at 75% done. I don't know how you decide that percentage anyway.
I can just see this. Anyone who wants to buy any blocks of metal or any home milling equipment must pass a background check. That will really help kick start our economy, wouldn't it?
I was reading this on another site and I believe other than as you suggest other defining even 'less finished' hunks of metal, say 75%, as firearms, there could be another angle.
Currently you can build a gun for yourself out of any parts that are not considered a gun without undergoing a NICS check (as long as you are not a prohibited person). Later you can give that gun to someone else or sell it in a private intrastate transaction. If you are, however, a FFL manufacturer in the "business" of making guns, you must serialize the gun, pay the excise tax for making it, and transfer IAW FFL rules. What I could see is trying to define anyone having made a gun and EVENTUALLY SELLING/TRADING/TRANSFERRING as a transaction requiring involvement of a FFL.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:46 pm
by Syntyr
srothstein wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:03 pm
I am curious how he will define what is a ghost gun to require background checks. If he claims it is a lower than is 80% finished, I predict an immediate change in lowers to sell them at 75% done. I don't know how you decide that percentage anyway.
I can just see this. Anyone who wants to buy any blocks of metal or any home milling equipment must pass a background check. That will really help kick start our economy, wouldn't it?
That ship had sailed. You can't stop the signal! Zero percent lower. Going to have to outlaw printers and plastic.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 8:08 pm
by srothstein
Syntyr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 07, 2021 7:46 pmThat ship had sailed. You can't stop the signal! Zero percent lower. Going to have to outlaw printers and plastic.
You're right of course. I was so busy thinking of the 80% lowers and machining them that I completely forgot bout the 3D printing aspect. And for any of the plastic guns, it should not be hard to print the frame and buy the rest of the parts without a problem. I wish I could afford that fused metal 3D printer for the pistols I want to make.
The Justice Department, within 60 days, will publish model “red flag” legislation for states.
The Justice Department, within 60 days, will issue a proposed rule to make clear when a device marketed as a stabilizing brace effectively turns a pistol into a short-barreled rifle subject to the requirements of the National Firearms Act.
The Justice Department, within 30 days, will issue a proposed rule to help stop the proliferation of “ghost guns.”
Not just ghost guns. AR pistols with stabilizer braces and red flag laws.
I need to get some tools together and find a slab of aluminum. Time for a zero percent lower.
Also, if he does this, I'm putting a full fledged rifle stock in place of the brace on my backpack gun and will probably make whatever suppressor I want too. If a stroke of a pen makes me a felon, I'm going all out. I will not comply with any more gun laws. Enough is enough.
Re: Biden Plans Thursday Executive Action On Guns
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2021 9:08 pm
by ScottDLS
Well here it is. Get the ATF arguing again about arm braces (SBR or pistol). And "a proposed rule to stop the proliferation of 'ghost guns'. Presumably some definition in between a 80% lower and a hunk of bar stock. Then a "model state law" recommendation for 'red flag' law, that 40 odd states can ignore.
