UN Gun Control Treaty
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
United Nations ?????
I doubt the Indian Nation will sign it.
It sounds as if it might conflict with a prior treaty.
The Treaty of 1677 (or the Treaty Between Virginia And The Indians 1677 or Treaty of Middle Plantation.
This was a treaty between the Indian Nations (the 3 bears inhabitants/residents/owners of this continent/like Israel) and Virginia prior to there existing any "United States" (Goldilocks/Palestinians)
I'm sure the United States will have an embargo on Indian Nations importing things perfectly legal there in those nations, simply because they surround them geographically, therefore can limit those nations' commerce. (I know there's more to it than that, but still ... )
I doubt the Indian Nation will sign it.
It sounds as if it might conflict with a prior treaty.
The Treaty of 1677 (or the Treaty Between Virginia And The Indians 1677 or Treaty of Middle Plantation.
This was a treaty between the Indian Nations (the 3 bears inhabitants/residents/owners of this continent/like Israel) and Virginia prior to there existing any "United States" (Goldilocks/Palestinians)
I'm sure the United States will have an embargo on Indian Nations importing things perfectly legal there in those nations, simply because they surround them geographically, therefore can limit those nations' commerce. (I know there's more to it than that, but still ... )
I'm no lawyer
"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
"Never show your hole card" "Always have something in reserve"
Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
http://www.infowars.com/colorado-batman ... ng-staged/
Just going to leave this link right here. Not saying I am a believer, but it is an interesting read.
Just going to leave this link right here. Not saying I am a believer, but it is an interesting read.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
FWIW, that's a repost of this article from naturalnews.com (Infowars doesn't try to hide this or anything, I'm just giving the original source).KurteL10 wrote:http://www.infowars.com/colorado-batman ... ng-staged/
Just going to leave this link right here. Not saying I am a believer, but it is an interesting read.
I get real uneasy reading stuff like that... I get my RDA of tin foil from using it to make little one-off baking sheets; I don't need a hat made out of the stuff! <-See? My hat's black, not shiny and silvery.
Last edited by Dave2 on Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
http://nation.foxnews.com/un-gun-restri ... grab-flops
While I'd like to believe the opinion of the Washington Times, I continue to worry that it is a tactic to take the public focus off this treaty. "Nothing to see here, people - move along" doesn't account for the fact that the UN and many of our own politicians continue to seek ways to control guns in the US. Based on what has and hasn't happened in the Senate in the past 3 years, the actions of that body hardly seem reasoned and measured, the whole purpose for having it in the first place.
This treaty, like the opportunist calls for gun control after every tragedy, is not going away. We take our focus of activities regarding it at our own 2nd Amendment peril.
While I'd like to believe the opinion of the Washington Times, I continue to worry that it is a tactic to take the public focus off this treaty. "Nothing to see here, people - move along" doesn't account for the fact that the UN and many of our own politicians continue to seek ways to control guns in the US. Based on what has and hasn't happened in the Senate in the past 3 years, the actions of that body hardly seem reasoned and measured, the whole purpose for having it in the first place.
This treaty, like the opportunist calls for gun control after every tragedy, is not going away. We take our focus of activities regarding it at our own 2nd Amendment peril.
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Dum Spiro, Spero
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
This link will take you to a page where you can download the first draft of the ATT.
http://www.innercitypress.com/att2ammo072412.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's basically is everything we knew it would be
Highlights
1. It lumps conventional firearms with tanks, missiles, warships, helicopter, etc
2. It includes ammunition controls
3. It includes gun registration
4. specifically says that states will adopt national legislation to ensure treaty obligations are met
This is the one I really love, so I am going to copy it directly
Article 20
Amendments
1. At any time after the Treaty’s entry into force, a State Party may propose an amendment to this Treaty.
2. Any proposed amendment shall be submitted in writing to the Depository, which will then circulate the proposal to all States Parties, not less than 180 days before next meeting of the Conference of States Parties. The amendment shall be considered at the next Conference of States Parties if a majority of States Parties notify the Implementation Support Unit that they support further consideration of the proposal no later than 180 days after its circulation by the Depositary.
3. Any amendment to this Treaty shall be adopted by consensus, or if consensus is not achieved, by two-thirds of the States Parties present and voting at the Conference of States Parties. The Depositary shall communicate any amendment to all States Parties.
4. A proposed amendment adopted in accordance with Paragraph 3 of this Article shall enter into force for all States Parties to the Treaty that have accepted it, upon deposit with the Depositary. Thereafter, it shall enter into force for any remaining State Party on the date of deposit of its instrument of accession.
So Nobama can push for excluding civilian arms and ammo while knowing full well that it could very easily be changed. They would only need 129 out of 193 UN members to vote for it. A lot less than the "consensus" needed now for passage
I'm going to stop now before my head explodes
http://www.innercitypress.com/att2ammo072412.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's basically is everything we knew it would be
Highlights
1. It lumps conventional firearms with tanks, missiles, warships, helicopter, etc
2. It includes ammunition controls
3. It includes gun registration
4. specifically says that states will adopt national legislation to ensure treaty obligations are met
This is the one I really love, so I am going to copy it directly
Article 20
Amendments
1. At any time after the Treaty’s entry into force, a State Party may propose an amendment to this Treaty.
2. Any proposed amendment shall be submitted in writing to the Depository, which will then circulate the proposal to all States Parties, not less than 180 days before next meeting of the Conference of States Parties. The amendment shall be considered at the next Conference of States Parties if a majority of States Parties notify the Implementation Support Unit that they support further consideration of the proposal no later than 180 days after its circulation by the Depositary.
3. Any amendment to this Treaty shall be adopted by consensus, or if consensus is not achieved, by two-thirds of the States Parties present and voting at the Conference of States Parties. The Depositary shall communicate any amendment to all States Parties.
4. A proposed amendment adopted in accordance with Paragraph 3 of this Article shall enter into force for all States Parties to the Treaty that have accepted it, upon deposit with the Depositary. Thereafter, it shall enter into force for any remaining State Party on the date of deposit of its instrument of accession.
So Nobama can push for excluding civilian arms and ammo while knowing full well that it could very easily be changed. They would only need 129 out of 193 UN members to vote for it. A lot less than the "consensus" needed now for passage
I'm going to stop now before my head explodes
One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. -Thomas Jefferson
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
They've got an update that says the latest draft (which isn't loading on my phone) removed the language about ammo and grenades.
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
Personally, I don't care what they say is or isn't in the treaty; I oppose it on principle. Any sovereign nation should be able to enter into trade deals with any other sovereign nation. Then, IF other nations take umbrage to that, they can voice their opinion on the world stage and state why they take umbrage to it...for instance, North Korea is run by an EXTREMELY oppressive regime that has done quite a bit to cause starvation conditions for its citizens, among other things...therefore the USA takes umbrage with nations trading with NK and will NOT trade with NK and will do things to discourage others from trading with NK. We shouldn't need some dirty, underhanded treaty to give us reason to have a problem with weapons being sold to terrorist groups or rogue nations such as Iran. Just another excuse to limit individual freedoms, bind the hands of sovereign nations and increase the UN bureaucracy...talk about "fat cats", well the UN bureaucrats are the very definition. I despise them, 100%.Dave2 wrote:They've got an update that says the latest draft (which isn't loading on my phone) removed the language about ammo and grenades.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
Dick Morris discusses it here on youtube.
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Note: Me sharing a link and information published by others does not constitute my endorsement, agreement, disagreement, my opinion or publishing by me. If you do not like what is contained at a link I share, take it up with the author or publisher of the content.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
Oh I'm right there with you. Assuming they're correct, it just changes your highlights is all.Heartland Patriot wrote:Personally, I don't care what they say is or isn't in the treaty; I oppose it on principle. Any sovereign nation should be able to enter into trade deals with any other sovereign nation. Then, IF other nations take umbrage to that, they can voice their opinion on the world stage and state why they take umbrage to it...for instance, North Korea is run by an EXTREMELY oppressive regime that has done quite a bit to cause starvation conditions for its citizens, among other things...therefore the USA takes umbrage with nations trading with NK and will NOT trade with NK and will do things to discourage others from trading with NK. We shouldn't need some dirty, underhanded treaty to give us reason to have a problem with weapons being sold to terrorist groups or rogue nations such as Iran. Just another excuse to limit individual freedoms, bind the hands of sovereign nations and increase the UN bureaucracy...talk about "fat cats", well the UN bureaucrats are the very definition. I despise them, 100%.Dave2 wrote:They've got an update that says the latest draft (which isn't loading on my phone) removed the language about ammo and grenades.
I am not a lawyer, nor have I played one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, nor should anything I say be taken as legal advice. If it is important that any information be accurate, do not use me as the only source.
Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
People really are paranoid about the UN. Remember all those UN troops billboards here in TX years ago? I dont get it . The UN is one of the most inept and useless organizations ever created. They sit around passing resolutions all the time. Most of them condemning this or that, and none of them ever really getting enforced. I dont sweat it.
People have finally realized that gun control didn't work. Most of the country has changed on gun ownership. I grew up in Illinois and the majority are for CCW now. In the 80s people were happy with the gun laws. It didnt work so people have wised up.The only reason CCW hasnt passed yet is Chicago politicians, and the governor. They had enough votes to pass it last year but not enough to be veto proof all they need is 5 more and they can tell Chicago and the Gov to stuff it. So if a state like Illinois has come around, no way Americans let the UN write gun laws for them.
People have finally realized that gun control didn't work. Most of the country has changed on gun ownership. I grew up in Illinois and the majority are for CCW now. In the 80s people were happy with the gun laws. It didnt work so people have wised up.The only reason CCW hasnt passed yet is Chicago politicians, and the governor. They had enough votes to pass it last year but not enough to be veto proof all they need is 5 more and they can tell Chicago and the Gov to stuff it. So if a state like Illinois has come around, no way Americans let the UN write gun laws for them.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
that the UN, attempting to do anything that it is supposed to do, is inept and irrelevant. They have no power other than what is granted to them by the countries, including our own, that fund the lunacy that the UN perpetrateserkfox wrote:People really are paranoid about the UN. Remember all those UN troops billboards here in TX years ago? I dont get it . The UN is one of the most inept and useless organizations ever created. They sit around passing resolutions all the time. Most of them condemning this or that, and none of them ever really getting enforced. I dont sweat it.
People have finally realized that gun control didn't work. Most of the country has changed on gun ownership. I grew up in Illinois and the majority are for CCW now. In the 80s people were happy with the gun laws. It didnt work so people have wised up.The only reason CCW hasnt passed yet is Chicago politicians, and the governor. They had enough votes to pass it last year but not enough to be veto proof all they need is 5 more and they can tell Chicago and the Gov to stuff it. So if a state like Illinois has come around, no way Americans let the UN write gun laws for them.
But that isn't the point with this treaty. Yes, the UN will draw it up and publish it but it is up to the countries that sign it to police it. The news report this morning said that it would be signed today. When Hillary Clinton signs it, it will become a means toward the end that she, President Obama and a host of other government officials share to get rid of guns in the US. How well that strategy works depends on the political climate and what they can get away with. Obviously, if the President isn't re-elected, the chances of it working are diminished. Notice that I didn't say that they disappear.
I realize that he is just a kook, using his own media to spread his message but he must think that the message will have a chance of success or he won't do it.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-2 ... mberg.html
When you couple that with the UN treaty that gives at least somewhat of an air of legitimacy to gun bans and confiscation, particularly if the Supreme Court get stacked with more Liberal Justices in a second Obama term, the outlook will not be good. We know what level of restrictions that Mayor Bloomberg has imposed on the citizens of NYC. For me, it is the whole climate of the anti-gun groups, not just the UN treaty itself, that is worrisome.More than 700 mayors, from both political parties, have joined together to stop the flow of illegal guns into our communities. Mayors know all too well that the debate on the Second Amendment is over. The Supreme Court recognized that the Second Amendment grants citizens the right to bear arms, subject to reasonable restrictions. The question is: What should those restrictions look like?
The people not wanting gun control will not matter. Most of the people didn't want Obamacare either and look how that turned out.
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Dum Spiro, Spero
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
Final draft of the treaty being circulated for approval.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The final draft contains at least one new piece I found interesting.
Article 3
2. A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms within the scope of this Treaty if the transfer would violate its relevant international obligations, under international agreements to which it is a Party, in particular those relating to the international transfer of, or illicit trafficking in, conventional arms.
The ATF used the violence in Mexico for justification in sending out demand letter 3.
Obama just talked about how AK-47's don't belong in civilian hands.
We knew where it was going, but at least we don't have to speculate anymore.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The final draft contains at least one new piece I found interesting.
Article 3
2. A State Party shall not authorize any transfer of conventional arms within the scope of this Treaty if the transfer would violate its relevant international obligations, under international agreements to which it is a Party, in particular those relating to the international transfer of, or illicit trafficking in, conventional arms.
The ATF used the violence in Mexico for justification in sending out demand letter 3.
Obama just talked about how AK-47's don't belong in civilian hands.
We knew where it was going, but at least we don't have to speculate anymore.
One loves to possess arms, though they hope never to have occasion for them. -Thomas Jefferson
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
erkfox wrote:People really are paranoid about the UN. Remember all those UN troops billboards here in TX years ago? I dont get it . The UN is one of the most inept and useless organizations ever created. They sit around passing resolutions all the time. Most of them condemning this or that, and none of them ever really getting enforced. I dont sweat it.
People have finally realized that gun control didn't work. Most of the country has changed on gun ownership. I grew up in Illinois and the majority are for CCW now. In the 80s people were happy with the gun laws. It didnt work so people have wised up.The only reason CCW hasnt passed yet is Chicago politicians, and the governor. They had enough votes to pass it last year but not enough to be veto proof all they need is 5 more and they can tell Chicago and the Gov to stuff it. So if a state like Illinois has come around, no way Americans let the UN write gun laws for them.
The UN Treaty is just a proxy, an end run around the more difficult process of enacting gun control legislation domestically. With the treaty they have a starting point that is far further down the path of confiscation than they'd ever be able to get if the legislation had to originate in Congress.
Last edited by VMI77 on Fri Jul 27, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty
IMHO, apathy will bite you in the posterior.erkfox wrote:People really are paranoid about the UN. Remember all those UN troops billboards here in TX years ago? I dont get it . The UN is one of the most inept and useless organizations ever created. They sit around passing resolutions all the time. Most of them condemning this or that, and none of them ever really getting enforced. I dont sweat it.
People have finally realized that gun control didn't work. Most of the country has changed on gun ownership. I grew up in Illinois and the majority are for CCW now. In the 80s people were happy with the gun laws. It didnt work so people have wised up.The only reason CCW hasnt passed yet is Chicago politicians, and the governor. They had enough votes to pass it last year but not enough to be veto proof all they need is 5 more and they can tell Chicago and the Gov to stuff it. So if a state like Illinois has come around, no way Americans let the UN write gun laws for them.
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Re: UN Gun Control Treaty - FLOPS
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wire ... de-treaty/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The UN Member States could not get an agreement and the Arms Control Treaty is a failure - for now.
MaoBama and his Dem croonies have shown their hand on this one, ("working under the radar" as he told Brady).
It is IMPERATIVE that he NOT BE REELECTED!
The UN Member States could not get an agreement and the Arms Control Treaty is a failure - for now.
MaoBama and his Dem croonies have shown their hand on this one, ("working under the radar" as he told Brady).
It is IMPERATIVE that he NOT BE REELECTED!
Last edited by AEA on Fri Jul 27, 2012 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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