03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not ready to hang Zimmerman.... Heck....maybe he did us all a favor...I don't have any way of knowing.
The one and only firm position I have on this situation is that the average citizen is not well advised to play cop. Too much can go wrong and we may be causing a crime by trying to see if someone is about to commit a crime. If Zimmerman had been following me around... I would have assumed he was about to mug me... Or worse. This is a great example of why we as citizens should not try to play police officer.
It appears that Zimmerman has made a wrong choice here and it may cost him dearly. For what?.. He did not witness ANY crime being committed by the kid he was stalking.
I hear you, but you have to listen to what you are saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that we shouldn't take interest in other people's actions because that person could savagely attack us and force us to defend ourselves....
.. So if Zimmerman were following you, and then asked you "what are you doing here?" You would have hauled off and clocked him? I doubt it. I am sure that most of us would have gone with a verbal approach.
GBousley
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bzo311 wrote:All I am trying to say here is that while Zimmerman's actions were not the brightest, they were not illegal. Meaning, sure Zimmerman didn't have to get out of his car, but Treyvon didn't have to attack him either.
No argument from me on that point. But I think there is the possibility that the right to stand your ground might be in question in this case.
I really don't think this is stand your ground at all in either case. In Martin's case he had the right to stand his ground (continue home, call the cops, watch the watcher), but unless he was attacked first, he did not have the right to use lethal force on Zimmerman. In Zimmerman's case...he had no where to retreat to. He was on the ground being beaten so his is straight self defense or not self defense not stand your ground at all really.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not ready to hang Zimmerman.... Heck....maybe he did us all a favor...I don't have any way of knowing.
The one and only firm position I have on this situation is that the average citizen is not well advised to play cop. Too much can go wrong and we may be causing a crime by trying to see if someone is about to commit a crime. If Zimmerman had been following me around... I would have assumed he was about to mug me... Or worse. This is a great example of why we as citizens should not try to play police officer.
It appears that Zimmerman has made a wrong choice here and it may cost him dearly. For what?.. He did not witness ANY crime being committed by the kid he was stalking.
I hear you, but you have to listen to what you are saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that we shouldn't take interest in other people's actions because that person could savagely attack us and force us to defend ourselves....
.. So if Zimmerman were following you, and then asked you "what are you doing here?" You would have hauled off and clocked him? I doubt it. I am sure that most of us would have gone with a verbal approach.
Taking interest in someone else's actions is not the same as intervening in someone else's actions. My response to zimmermans question would be less than polite. unfortunately, I might have clocked Zimmerman if I thought he was setting me up and getting to close. Isn't everyone on this forum always posting about staying in code yellow or something like that?
Zimmerman nor anyone else has the right to accost any of us, regardless of our physical look.
Mr. ZImerman told police investigators that he lost sight of Mr. Martin who in turn ambushed and attacked said Zimerman. Phy. Evidence do support his story in addition to an eye witness who called 911. In absence of the eye witness or Mr. Martin had been attacked by punches or been grabbed, etc... Those acts will leave some phy. evidence. Prosecutors and Police officers are not that idiots they can smell a bull story. That is more so with good homicide investigators.
Beiruty,
United we stand, dispersed we falter
2014: NRA Endowment lifetime member
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not ready to hang Zimmerman.... Heck....maybe he did us all a favor...I don't have any way of knowing.
The one and only firm position I have on this situation is that the average citizen is not well advised to play cop. Too much can go wrong and we may be causing a crime by trying to see if someone is about to commit a crime. If Zimmerman had been following me around... I would have assumed he was about to mug me... Or worse. This is a great example of why we as citizens should not try to play police officer.
It appears that Zimmerman has made a wrong choice here and it may cost him dearly. For what?.. He did not witness ANY crime being committed by the kid he was stalking.
I hear you, but you have to listen to what you are saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that we shouldn't take interest in other people's actions because that person could savagely attack us and force us to defend ourselves....
.. So if Zimmerman were following you, and then asked you "what are you doing here?" You would have hauled off and clocked him? I doubt it. I am sure that most of us would have gone with a verbal approach.
Taking interest in someone else's actions is not the same as intervening in someone else's actions. My response to zimmermans question would be less than polite. unfortunately, I might have clocked Zimmerman if I thought he was setting me up and getting to close. Isn't everyone on this forum always posting about staying in code yellow or something like that?
Zimmerman nor anyone else has the right to accost any of us, regardless of our physical look.
Right now we don't know that Zimmerman did that at all. All we know for sure (if we know anything for sure here) is that at some point he followed Martin and at some point Martin was on top of him beating his head into the ground.
If you clocked someone that was behind you that was trying to give you back you house keys you dropped two blocks ago I imagine they would be at minimum annoyed. I also rather doubt that you would continue beating their head into the ground once you knocked them down, but would instead be focused on running away.
SAHM to four precious children. Wife to a loving husband.
"The women of this country learned long ago those without swords can still die upon them!" Eowyn in LOTR Two Towers
03Lightningrocks wrote:I'm not ready to hang Zimmerman.... Heck....maybe he did us all a favor...I don't have any way of knowing.
The one and only firm position I have on this situation is that the average citizen is not well advised to play cop. Too much can go wrong and we may be causing a crime by trying to see if someone is about to commit a crime. If Zimmerman had been following me around... I would have assumed he was about to mug me... Or worse. This is a great example of why we as citizens should not try to play police officer.
It appears that Zimmerman has made a wrong choice here and it may cost him dearly. For what?.. He did not witness ANY crime being committed by the kid he was stalking.
I hear you, but you have to listen to what you are saying. To me it sounds like you're saying that we shouldn't take interest in other people's actions because that person could savagely attack us and force us to defend ourselves....
.. So if Zimmerman were following you, and then asked you "what are you doing here?" You would have hauled off and clocked him? I doubt it. I am sure that most of us would have gone with a verbal approach.
Taking interest in someone else's actions is not the same as intervening in someone else's actions. My response to zimmermans question would be less than polite. unfortunately, I might have clocked Zimmerman if I thought he was setting me up and getting to close. Isn't everyone on this forum always posting about staying in code yellow or something like that?
Zimmerman nor anyone else has the right to accost any of us, regardless of our physical look.
Right now we don't know that Zimmerman did that at all. All we know for sure (if we know anything for sure here) is that at some point he followed Martin and at some point Martin was on top of him beating his head into the ground.
If you clocked someone that was behind you that was trying to give you back you house keys you dropped two blocks ago I imagine they would be at minimum annoyed. I also rather doubt that you would continue beating their head into the ground once you knocked them down, but would instead be focused on running away.
Yes, this is a given. We do not know those details. I can only guess that given Zimmerman's side of the story plus the corroborating witness and given the fact that he was not charged that the unsure parts of the story point to Zimmerman being the non-aggressor. So I do admit to an assumption on my part.
GBousley
Flash and Web Developer http://texaschlapp.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - Texas CHL Location Database, Android App and Information http://GBousley.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Charles L. Cotton wrote:...have you noticed how sticky eggs get when they are on your face?
Chas.
I just want to quote this and have it separate from all the other statements. So let's wait. One side in this argument is going to have egg on its face. The administrator of this site seems pretty convinced that he knows which side that is. Let's wait and see. I'll make sure to bring this quote up when there is a determination. Charles, I know you won't mind. These are your words.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:...have you noticed how sticky eggs get when they are on your face?
Chas.
I just want to quote this and have it separate from all the other statements. So let's wait. One side in this argument is going to have egg on its face. The administrator of this site seems pretty convinced that he knows which side that is. Let's wait and see. I'll make sure to bring this quote up when there is a determination. Charles, I know you won't mind. These are your words.
Seriously, now you're going to lay down a challenge to the site administrator, someone who knows more about self-defense law than you'll ever likely know.
I'm sorry, I know we're supposed to avoid personal attacks, but you need to grow up.
Charles L. Cotton wrote:...have you noticed how sticky eggs get when they are on your face?
Chas.
I just want to quote this and have it separate from all the other statements. So let's wait. One side in this argument is going to have egg on its face. The administrator of this site seems pretty convinced that he knows which side that is. Let's wait and see. I'll make sure to bring this quote up when there is a determination. Charles, I know you won't mind. These are your words.
Seriously, now you're going to lay down a challenge to the site administrator, someone who knows more about self-defense law than you'll ever likely know.
I'm sorry, I know we're supposed to avoid personal attacks, but you need to grow up.
The highlighted section is a personal attack. If you want to avoid those, then don't engage in them.
apostate wrote:Which "side" are you assuming he's on?
Charles seems to be claiming that people who've been calling for Zimmerman's arrest and indictment have egg on their face in light of new developments. I don't want to misconstrue anybody, and I do apologize to Charles if I've misconstrued him, but that is my understanding and he has the ability to correct me if he thinks I'm wrong.
Charles was making the point that all the facts are not out, suspend judgment... You're trying to paint him as the counter of your argument which is not true. If you want to pin somebody's premature prediction versus yours there's lots more places to look than here.
You have been a member of this forum for barely over two weeks. Your first post/topic was a hypothetical self-defense scenario looking to try and challenge those who didn't agree with your view. Your second topic you started was about questionable self-defense techniques you 'supposedly' read about that included using racial slurs and other derogatory remarks. Now you are challenging everyone in this thread and can't even keep your posts straight and contradict yourself on your stance. This is indicative of what is known on forums as a 'troll'.
So, you need to knock off the controversial posts and quit trying to pick fights or you run the risk of being banned.
You have been a member of this forum for barely over two weeks. Your first post/topic was a hypothetical self-defense scenario looking to try and challenge those who didn't agree with your view. Your second topic you started was about questionable self-defense techniques you 'supposedly' read about that included using racial slurs and other derogatory remarks. Now you are challenging everyone in this thread and can't even keep your posts straight and contradict yourself on your stance. This is indicative of what is known on forums as a 'troll'.
So, you need to knock off the controversial posts and quit trying to pick fights or you run the risk of being banned.
Keith B
Moderator
Alright, Keith. I'll knock it off. I guess I wasn't really aware of what the boundaries are around here. I know what "troll" is from a couple of other forums that I've seen, but I'm no troll. If it's off limits to even slightly challenge anything that a site administrator says, so be it. This isn't my site and I don't make the rules. But that particular rule isn't spelled out at the front gate. Now that I know it, I will adhere to it, because I actually like this forum. Lots of good info here. So I'm done with this whole topic, this thread and the other, until Zimmerman gets convicted upon receiving a fair trial. If he doesn't, I'll admit my error. Anyways, I hope you weren't offended Charles. I wasn't being facetious. But like I said, I'll let this whole thing go.
