April 17th - Second Amendment march on the Capital.

[marksiwel]

Whats the point of the March Btw?

[boomerang]

Whats the point of the March Btw?

To peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[marksiwel]

Whats the point of the March Btw?

To peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Grievances such as?
I mean is this just a Random "We have guns and we vote March"
or is their a Gun Related Issue we are talking about?

[CWOOD]

There is a lot of good information in the post, but one thing to keep in mind is that in several of the statutes relating to public demonstrations and conduct is the phrase"it is a defense to prosecution".

This means that after you are arrested, indicted and hire a lawyer and go to trial, you can use this provision to assert a reason to the court why you think you should not be convicted of this offense. Sadly, again, it may be another case of beat the rap but not the ride.

I am not commenting on the wisdom, or lack thereof, of participation in the gathering. It is simply something that all involved should be aware of and take into consideration.

Good Luck

... (deleted doc's post to save space)
Good point doc. We should have lots of video cameras at the event so we can counter the MSM and APD lies. Youtube and social networks are powerful tools for getting the truth out. Most cell phones will take short video clips in a pinch but real video cameras or helmet cams are even better for documenting it.

Does anyone have any official correspondance from APD stating that someone carrying long arms would be arrested? I'd also like them to answer the question about openly carrying a pre-1899 handgun in a holster.

There was also a question about parades or gatherings. I could not find any sections relating to them. IANAL, but I see no provision that would prohibit a person from engaging in free speech at a lawful assembly (is there an area on the capital grounds that can be booked for protests/gatherings and has this been done?) while carrying a long gun in a manner not "calculated to alarm".

I think video cameras will be very helpful. Police use them in patrol cars and I think they level the playing field so that both sides understand that their actions will be preserved for review later.

Here are the Penal Code sections that are usually used for gun charges:

Sec. 46.03. PLACES WEAPONS PROHIBITED. (a) A person commits an offense if the person intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly possesses or goes with a firearm, illegal knife, club, or prohibited weapon listed in Section 46.05(a):

(1) on the physical premises of a school or educational institution, any grounds or building on which an activity sponsored by a school or educational institution is being conducted, or a passenger transportation vehicle of a school or educational institution, whether the school or educational institution is public or private, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the institution;

(2) on the premises of a polling place on the day of an election or while early voting is in progress;

(3) on the premises of any government court or offices utilized by the court, unless pursuant to written regulations or written authorization of the court;

(4) on the premises of a racetrack;

(5) in or into a secured area of an airport; or

(6) within 1,000 feet of premises the location of which is designated by the Texas Department of Criminal Justice as a place of execution under Article 43.19, Code of Criminal Procedure, on a day that a sentence of death is set to be imposed on the designated premises and the person received notice that:

(A) going within 1,000 feet of the premises with a weapon listed under this subsection was prohibited; or

(B) possessing a weapon listed under this subsection within 1,000 feet of the premises was prohibited.

Sec. 46.035. UNLAWFUL CARRYING OF HANDGUN BY LICENSE HOLDER. (a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship.

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under Chapter 1702, Occupations Code, and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:

(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.


... (deleting duplicate sections dealing with judges and court officials to save space)

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

(j) Subsections (a) and (b)(1) do not apply to a historical reenactment performed in compliance with the rules of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission.

(k) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (b)(1) that the actor was not given effective notice under Section 411.204, Government Code.

Sec. 42.01. DISORDERLY CONDUCT. (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly:

(obviously non-applicable sections deleted to save space)

(5) makes unreasonable noise in a public place other than a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code, or in or near a private residence that he has no right to occupy;

(6) fights with another in a public place;

(7) discharges a firearm in a public place other than a public road or a sport shooting range, as defined by Section 250.001, Local Government Code;

(8) displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;

(9) discharges a firearm on or across a public road;

(more obviously non-applicable items deleted to save space)

(1) an act is deemed to occur in a public place or near a private residence if it produces its offensive or proscribed consequences in the public place or near a private residence; and

(2) a noise is presumed to be unreasonable if the noise exceeds a decibel level of 85 after the person making the noise receives notice from a magistrate or peace officer that the noise is a public nuisance.

(d) An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor unless committed under Subsection (a)(7) or (a)(8), in which event it is a Class B misdemeanor.

(e) It is a defense to prosecution for an offense under Subsection (a)(7) or (9) that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code.

Sec. 42.02. RIOT. (a) For the purpose of this section, "riot" means the assemblage of seven or more persons resulting in conduct which:

(1) creates an immediate danger of damage to property or injury to persons;

(2) substantially obstructs law enforcement or other governmental functions or services; or

(3) by force, threat of force, or physical action deprives any person of a legal right or disturbs any person in the enjoyment of a legal right.

(b) A person commits an offense if he knowingly participates in a riot.

(c) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the assembly was at first lawful and when one of those assembled manifested an intent to engage in conduct enumerated in Subsection (a), the actor retired from the assembly.

(d) It is no defense to prosecution under this section that another who was a party to the riot has been acquitted, has not been arrested, prosecuted, or convicted, has been convicted of a different offense or of a different type or class of offense, or is immune from prosecution.

(e) Except as provided in Subsection (f), an offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

(f) An offense under this section is an offense of the same classification as any offense of a higher grade committed by anyone engaged in the riot if the offense was:

(1) in the furtherance of the purpose of the assembly; or

(2) an offense which should have been anticipated as a result of the assembly.

Sec. 42.03. OBSTRUCTING HIGHWAY OR OTHER PASSAGEWAY. (a) A person commits an offense if, without legal privilege or authority, he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly:

(1) obstructs a highway, street, sidewalk, railway, waterway, elevator, aisle, hallway, entrance, or exit to which the public or a substantial group of the public has access, or any other place used for the passage of persons, vehicles, or conveyances, regardless of the means of creating the obstruction and whether the obstruction arises from his acts alone or from his acts and the acts of others; or

(2) disobeys a reasonable request or order to move issued by a person the actor knows to be or is informed is a peace officer, a fireman, or a person with authority to control the use of the premises:

(A) to prevent obstruction of a highway or any of those areas mentioned in Subdivision (1); or

(B) to maintain public safety by dispersing those gathered in dangerous proximity to a fire, riot, or other hazard.

(b) For purposes of this section, "obstruct" means to render impassable or to render passage unreasonably inconvenient or hazardous.

(c) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

Here are a few interesting sections that APD might need to be reminded of:

Sec. 42.04. DEFENSE WHEN CONDUCT CONSISTS OF SPEECH OR OTHER EXPRESSION. (a) If conduct that would otherwise violate Section 42.01(a)(5) (Unreasonable Noise), 42.03 (Obstructing Passageway), or 42.055 (Funeral Service Disruptions) consists of speech or other communication, of gathering with others to hear or observe such speech or communication, or of gathering with others to picket or otherwise express in a nonviolent manner a position on social, economic, political, or religious questions, the actor must be ordered to move, disperse, or otherwise remedy the violation prior to his arrest if he has not yet intentionally harmed the interests of others which those sections seek to protect.

(b) The order required by this section may be given by a peace officer, a fireman, a person with authority to control the use of the premises, or any person directly affected by the violation.

(c) It is a defense to prosecution under Section 42.01(a)(5), 42.03, or 42.055:

(1) that in circumstances in which this section requires an order no order was given;

(2) that an order, if given, was manifestly unreasonable in scope; or

(3) that an order, if given, was promptly obeyed.



Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, Sec. 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974. Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, Sec. 1.01, eff. Sept. 1, 1994.

Amended by:

Acts 2006, 79th Leg., 3rd C.S., Ch. 2, Sec. 2, eff. May 19, 2006.





Sec. 42.05. DISRUPTING MEETING OR PROCESSION. (a) A person commits an offense if, with intent to prevent or disrupt a lawful meeting, procession, or gathering, he obstructs or interferes with the meeting, procession, or gathering by physical action or verbal utterance.

(b) An offense under this section is a Class B misdemeanor.

[SA-TX]

Always good to keep in mind. I would suspect that even APD wouldn't be so lawsuit oblivious as to arrest someone at a lawful rally who isn't touching their weapon and all of it is being video taped. It is one thing to hassle someone in private but it is another to go beyond the spirit and letter of the law at an event like this.

Is this sponsored by the NRA or TSRA? If so, can't we get them to partner with APD and DPS so that expectations are clear: there will/will not be openly carried long guns, empty holsters, CHL-holders carrying concealed, etc. and attorneys will be present as well as the event being taped. All applicable 1st and and 4th Amendment rights are expected to be respected and legal action is likely if they are not. Charles? Alice? Buhler?

There is a lot of good information in the post, but one thing to keep in mind is that in several of the statutes relating to public demonstrations and conduct is the phrase"it is a defense to prosecution".

This means that after you are arrested, indicted and hire a lawyer and go to trial, you can use this provision to assert a reason to the court why you think you should not be convicted of this offense. Sadly, again, it may be another case of beat the rap but not the ride.

I am not commenting on the wisdom, or lack thereof, of participation in the gathering. It is simply something that all involved should be aware of and take into consideration.

Good Luck

... (deleted doc's post to save space)

[marksiwel]

Gah! I have to work this weekend, why couldnt it be next weekend?

[drjoker]

Gah! I have to work this weekend, why couldnt it be next weekend?

Call in sick Mark. On your deathbed, you will not remember that one day's pay, but you will remember having saved democracy.

[bayouhazard]

Stick to the gun rights topic if you go. No ObamaCare signs please.

[marksiwel]

Stick to the gun rights topic if you go. No ObamaCare signs please.

[MBGuy]

SA-TX,

Maybe you're kidding, but I highly doubt TSRA will have anything to do with this as it isn't specific to CHL laws.

To those that think that this will be full of KKK, or Confederate flags, or crazy behavior in general, have you even been to to a Tea Party???? I have, and I'm hispanic. I wasn't the only hispanic, and I wasn't the only one wearing a tie, and there was no racism. If we of ALL colors and socio-economic classes don't begin to participate in these events, then we're making it easier for the media to portray those that are marching and protesting for OUR rights as a bunch of racist loons, and consequently they'll paint our rights as racist and loony as well.

[Kythas]

Gah! I have to work this weekend, why couldnt it be next weekend?

It IS next weekend.

[marksiwel]

Gah! I have to work this weekend, why couldnt it be next weekend?

It IS next weekend.

Sorry I meant, I work THAT weekend

[Oldgringo]

Gah! I have to work this weekend, why couldnt it be next weekend?

It IS next weekend.

Sorry I meant, I work THAT weekend

Is postponing the march not an option?

[marksiwel]

Boss came in 3 hours later, left us high and dry
The Reason
Her "Reason" Family Emergency
The Real Reason, she got drunk and got a "Sleeve of tattoos on her arm"

I'm thinking of calling out and claiming "Personal Reasons"

[stevie_d_64]

"...in a manner calculated to alarm..." To me that is all the excuse APD needs to arrest you...