EEllis wrote:Unless you don't want police to enter homes when they find an open door during an alarm response I'm not sure where the criticism is coming from. You have a very large dog of a known aggressive breed. The cops were in it's house when no one else was home. I have a hard time believing the dog wouldn't be aggressive in that situation. If a dog like that did bite it would normally be a pretty serious injury. If they had know a rott was inside then I do believe they should of taken a different approach but roasting cops for every shooting irregardless of facts is wrong.
I do not want police entering my home at all unless I have advised them there is a potential hostage situation. If my family is not there, my dog will be hiding from the sound of the siren, and there is no reason for them to enter the home, especially if there is no sign of forced entry. Once I have made it to the house I will make the call of them entering or not.
I worked a LOT of burgular alarm calls, and we never entered without the consent of the owner. 98% of the time they were false or accidentally triggered by a homeowner or someone at the buisness. >1% was no one there on a break-in, and <1% was the one time we found someone in the business and the owner had given us permission to enter over the phone.
Based on this fact and per eellis' comment quoted, it was not a good shoot. The officer should be disciplined.
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Lane said 8-year-old Bullet, who suffered from hip dysplasia, is not aggressive.
“My dog is in his home, in his room, laying down chilling like he does and he takes a long time. Anybody can come in the house and be like, ‘I thought you had a dog?’ And I do, but he’s not an aggressive dog,” Lane told KVUE.
Lane added that the dog’s blood was cleaned up off the floor, but that bullet holes remain in the wall and the futon Bullet slept on.
Dogs are unpredictable. Even 'gentle' dogs can have their moment. We don't know where the officers were in relation to the dog. Hip dysplasia may or may not be a factor. I don't know if this was a justified shoot or not but I think there is enough doubt to wait for the facts before we hang the officers. To imply they were irresponsible because we have seen so much of this lately is irresponsible.
What I saw was a small sticker on a window 20 feet from the door. Is that the sign you meant?
So you are now going to argue the difference between a sign and a sticker? If they were investigating a burglar alarm, they should have seen the sticker.
No credibility in that argument counselor. It's a shame you are more interested in creating doubt than facing what is apparent and common sense.
By the way, did you go to the house and measure the distance of the sign from the front door or are you speculation and assuming then saying it as fact?
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What I saw was a small sticker on a window 20 feet from the door. Is that the sign you meant?
So you are now going to argue the difference between a sign and a sticker? If they were investigating a burglar alarm, they should have seen the sticker.
No credibility in that argument counselor. It's a shame you are more interested in creating doubt than facing what is apparent and common sense.
I asked a question because as far as I knew they had more than one sign. And yes I do think there is a difference between a 3 by 5 sticker in a window and a sign and that the placement matters. The personal bull just isn't necessary.
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Reading this story today had me re-thinking using a home alarm system, I'd rather lose some items than my dog. Besides my dog is a much better deterrent than any alarm would ever be, she is large and protective which is why we have several signs up indicating beware of dog.
I am not sure about other cities but in mine on the alarm permit application (which is yearly) there is an option to list of a dog is on site and what location the dog would be in.
rentz wrote:Reading this story today had me re-thinking using a home alarm system, I'd rather lose some items than my dog. Besides my dog is a much better deterrent than any alarm would ever be, she is large and protective which is why we have several signs up indicating beware of dog.
I am not sure about other cities but in mine on the alarm permit application (which is yearly) there is an option to list of a dog is on site and what location the dog would be in.
There are also other options including private monitoring and systems that will just call you and you can remotely check cameras and then decide based on what you see.
I thought the "common" or "accepted" practice is to put the sign or sticker or the front window closest to the front door. I've been told by friends that fire and police had told them to put "rescue" stickers and other such stickers there. That's exactly where that sticker was.
~Tracy
Gun control is what you talk about when you don't want to talk about the truth ~ Colion Noir
SewTexas wrote:I thought the "common" or "accepted" practice is to put the sign or sticker or the front window closest to the front door. I've been told by friends that fire and police had told them to put "rescue" stickers and other such stickers there. That's exactly where that sticker was.
It looked to me that it was the window just to the right of the door but it was a.good 15 to 20 feet away. Of course cameras can distort things but.......
VMI77 wrote:
I have three big dogs. They're all sweethearts, but there is no way I'm ever going to call the police or allow a situation such as alarm to summon police to my property, unless I'm sure my dogs are secure in a way that makes it impossible for the police to kill them. That pretty much means that except in the most extreme situation, such as having to shoot an intruder, I'm not calling the police for anything.
I'm more afraid of the police than intruders. At least if intruders are shooting at me I can shoot back without going to prison if I live. And they're probably less likely to kill my dogs.
+1, if the dogs were around and I knew the place was being robbed, I wouldn't call. I'd call after I got home and secured the dogs.
I agree with you on being more afraid of having police come over the fence than an actual intruder...
mojo84 wrote:
I worked a LOT of burgular alarm calls, and we never entered without the consent of the owner. 98% of the time they were false or accidentally triggered by a homeowner or someone at the buisness. >1% was no one there on a break-in, and <1% was the one time we found someone in the business and the owner had given us permission to enter over the
Based on this fact and per eellis' comment quoted, it was not a good shoot. The officer should be disciplined.
And if there had been a bad guy in the house, beating, raping or worse to the occupants, the police, not knowing what is occuring, should wait outside because there is a sign saying dog inside? Why even dispatch if you aren't going to really investigate? IMHO an alarm with an open door constitutes probable cause to enter. Seattle had 25,000 alarm calls in a recent year, the majority false. For the 3% that were real (750), if there is a dog sticker/sign, we put that above helping persons in potential danger if there is a dog and the owner can't be found? I hope not.
mojo84 wrote:
I worked a LOT of burgular alarm calls, and we never entered without the consent of the owner. 98% of the time they were false or accidentally triggered by a homeowner or someone at the buisness. >1% was no one there on a break-in, and <1% was the one time we found someone in the business and the owner had given us permission to enter over the
Based on this fact and per eellis' comment quoted, it was not a good shoot. The officer should be disciplined.
And if there had been a bad guy in the house, beating, raping or worse to the occupants, the police, not knowing what is occuring, should wait outside because there is a sign saying dog inside? Why even dispatch if you aren't going to really investigate? IMHO an alarm with an open door constitutes probable cause to enter. Seattle had 25,000 alarm calls in a recent year, the majority false. For the 3% that were real (750), if there is a dog sticker/sign, we put that above helping persons in potential danger if there is a dog and the owner can't be found? I hope not.
You may want to look back at the thread to see who said what. I didn't say they shouldn't enter. I said there was a sign saying there was a dog inside and they entered anyway. Therefore, they should have been mentally prepared and not surprised to encounter a dog. Just because there is a dog and it's barking doesn't mean it is being aggressive and presenting imminent danger and needs to be shot.
Last edited by mojo84 on Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mojo84 wrote:
I worked a LOT of burgular alarm calls, and we never entered without the consent of the owner. 98% of the time they were false or accidentally triggered by a homeowner or someone at the buisness. >1% was no one there on a break-in, and <1% was the one time we found someone in the business and the owner had given us permission to enter over the
Based on this fact and per eellis' comment quoted, it was not a good shoot. The officer should be disciplined.
And if there had been a bad guy in the house, beating, raping or worse to the occupants, the police, not knowing what is occuring, should wait outside because there is a sign saying dog inside? Why even dispatch if you aren't going to really investigate? IMHO an alarm with an open door constitutes probable cause to enter. Seattle had 25,000 alarm calls in a recent year, the majority false. For the 3% that were real (750), if there is a dog sticker/sign, we put that above helping persons in potential danger if there is a dog and the owner can't be found? I hope not.
When I said the cops may have proceeded differently I was thinking they may have called for the dog to see if it was there, but heck the dog may be half deaf or just strange and ignored the calls so the officers still would of made entry. It's all assumption and we know how that goes. Just because they believe there may be a dog inside doesn't mean they shouldn't enter or that there is some safe way to sweep the house even with a dog there.
