This country doesn’t have a chance.

[WildBill]

I recommend a free market solution. Do not buy that crap. Do not permit it in your home. If anything like that came into my home it would be out before you could blink an eye, in ity bitty pieces. I do not care how much it cost.

I cannot and neither can you do anything about the feral children or youths down the street. Violence sells. It will not go anywhere no matter what the studies say.

However we can do something about our own homes.

Changes happen at the local level.

[ShootDontTalk]

I am guilty of an oversimplification of the issue if you define it as the whole of society is going bad. However what I offered is reasoned expertise that suggests routine exposure to graphic violence make violent acts more acceptable to those so exposed. Killing, not disrespecting parents, not a loss of family values, becomes easier if one is routinely exposed to killing. Certainly not every problem of society lies at the feet of graphic violence in movies and TV. Simple logic suggests that what we see affects what we do - or are the billions of dollars spent on advertising a complete waste? Are you not ever moved to help starving children by visual images of them? In the same way advertisers seek to modify behavior, so graphic violent movies seek to do the same. The tragedy is those who make such movies only seek our money, but they are taking with it our respect for human life.

I cannot stress how strongly I feel it important to read Col. Grossman's work, especially if you feel every act of graphic violent death does nothing to affect the human psyche.

That is certainly not the total answer. You have named some of the factors contributing to the decay of society. Only a fool would suggest graphic violence is the only contributing factor. After a lifetime of watching my fellow man, looking into my heart to see how it has affected me, and hearing from many that have been similarly affected, I have come to believe that graphic visual violence contributes to violence in society with the same certainty that I know exposure to it in military training makes more effective soldiers in war. Does it make everyone a raging sociopath? No. You need to take the time to read the Colonels' research. He explains it much better than I can.

And mamabearcali is exactly right. The home is where we must say, enough.

[baldeagle]

So what are you wanting to do here? Ban violent games and movies? Just like guns, violent games and movies are here to stay. I will continue to play and watch them and I have no disire to commit acts of violence.

Well, one thing we can do is pass laws that forbid violent movies or shows during hours when children are likely to be home. We actually used to have standards for TV that didn't permit such crap. There's nothing wrong with having such laws except that people don't want the laws. We could pass laws that don't allow violent videos to be sold to children.

[pcgizzmo]

I totally disagree. That is unless your saying years of the Rifleman, John Wayne movies, Gunsmoke and the like also contributed. Part of the problem is the availability of information. Any bit of information good or bad but mostly bad gets put out on the internet and is easily obtainable. Before the Internet bad things would happen and we may or may not hear about it. You might read about it in the news paper if you got it. You also might have watched the evening news but most people probably did not. Everyone is one the internet though. I think things seem worse than they are in some ways and maybe in some ways things are worse but I definitely think the availability of bad information inflates things..

[VoiceofReason]

So what are you wanting to do here? Ban violent games and movies? Just like guns, violent games and movies are here to stay. I will continue to play and watch them and I have no disire to commit acts of violence.

I am not wanting to do anything here except get people to see something they don’t want to see. I don’t believe I mentioned or even insinuated banning violent movies and video games.

Right now there are people doing their best to convince people that guns are the cause of violence, the only cause and if guns are banned, there will be a lot less violence.

Violent games and movies are here to stay but if they convince enough people, I wouldn’t bet on guns. The idea is that when the gun grabbers try to convince people that guns are the cause of violence, all the other causes should be pointed out too.

I will continue to play and watch them and I have no disire to commit acts of violence.

A question. You don’t need to answer but be honest with yourself. When watching a movie, don’t you have at least as little desire to kill that $#%^ that raped that mans wife and killed his whole family?

[ShootDontTalk]

You're not seriously suggesting that the portrayal of violence on something like Gunsmoke was comparable to the stuff we see today? When was the last time you saw blood flying on an episode of Gunsmoke?

In any event, the majority of westerns as a whole have never approached the graphic depictions of other genres. Depictions of killing were so mild that viewers today for the most part cannot understand the popularity of wildly popular series like Gunsmoke and others.

If you want an interesting footnote, watch Bonanza. For a season or so there was no depiction of gun violence. Indeed they stopped wearing guns altogether. The ratings fell, the guns came back. Bonanza was the most watched thing on TV for many years. Today it seems like milk toast.

I won't even go into Lollywoods obsession with guns, violence, and graphic death as a way of making money. Does anyone but me find it ironic when one of the loonies lectures us about the evils of owning guns? And no, censorship is probably not the answer. If I could have my way I would ask every American to really look at the root causes of the crumbling of American society and decide to do something about it instead of just settling back to watch another bloodbath on TV. My opinion worth what you paid for it.

[apostate]

A question. You don’t need to answer but be honest with yourself. When watching a movie, don’t you have at least as little desire to kill that $#%^ that raped that mans wife and killed his whole family?

"I mean, I wanna, I wanna kill. Kill. I wanna, I wanna see, I wanna see blood and gore and guts and veins in my teeth."

[Cedar Park Dad]

When I was growing up, violence was to be used only as a last resort, for self defense. People now laugh at Roy Rogers and other older cowboy movies. Then movies started showing up with a revenge theme. “Death Wish” with Charles Bronson was one of the earliest one I can remember.

In a lot of movies now, killing someone for revenge is “OK” and with as much blood and screaming as possible.

I did not intend to say these are the sole cause of violence, just that they contribute to society to lower our humanity just a little. A steady stream of this every day is bound to have an effect on the adolescent mind whether people realize it or not.

I wonder what Roy Rogers would say about the movie “The Unforgiven” if he saw it now?

As I said “People think to themselves, “that’s only a movie or video game”. “I would never kill someone for revenge or go on a killing spree because I got fired from a job”. “Someone else might do that but I wouldn’t”. It never crosses their mind that “someone else” goes to the movies they do, “someone else” works where they do, “someone else” goes to the school their children do.

People who play video games are less able to control impulsive aggressive behaviour, a new study suggests.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/v ... tudy..html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Science has come to a general consensus that violent TV does have an effect on kids' behavior, although doesn't say it causes children to act out the violence they see on the screen.
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/vi ... lence1.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Violent movies can increase violent responses in real life.
Two recently published studies show that prolonged exposure to gratuitous violence in the media can escalate subsequent hostile behaviors and, among some viewers, foster greater acceptance of violence as a means of conflict resolution.
The two studies were conducted by James B. Weaver III, head of the Department of Communication at Virginia Tech, and Dolf Zillmann of the University of Alabama.
http://www.research.vt.edu/resmag/scien ... lence.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Strange, I seem to remember a plethora of movies and TV shows where violence and revenge was a major theme.

Just about every cowboy movie ever made but a few examples:
*True Grit
*Hondo
*The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence

A raft of WWII movies

TV shows:
The Rifleman
Combat
Gunsmoke
Gillgan's Island

[Cedar Park Dad]

So what are you wanting to do here? Ban violent games and movies? Just like guns, violent games and movies are here to stay. I will continue to play and watch them and I have no disire to commit acts of violence.

Well, one thing we can do is pass laws that forbid violent movies or shows during hours when children are likely to be home. We actually used to have standards for TV that didn't permit such crap. There's nothing wrong with having such laws except that people don't want the laws. We could pass laws that don't allow violent videos to be sold to children.

Mmmm...its just good common sense regulation...right? After all, its just a reasonable compromise. I think you should pass it. You should pass it now.

No. The First Amendment is even more inviolate then the Second.

[nightmare69]

So what are you wanting to do here? Ban violent games and movies? Just like guns, violent games and movies are here to stay. I will continue to play and watch them and I have no disire to commit acts of violence.

Well, one thing we can do is pass laws that forbid violent movies or shows during hours when children are likely to be home. We actually used to have standards for TV that didn't permit such crap. There's nothing wrong with having such laws except that people don't want the laws. We could pass laws that don't allow violent videos to be sold to children.

Or you could be a responsible parent and forbid your child from watching those shows or set up the parental controls on your tv. Video games like movies have a rating system, if it's rated M for mature you have to be 17 to buy it. Clerks are supposed to check ID.

[baldeagle]

Mmmm...its just good common sense regulation...right? After all, its just a reasonable compromise. I think you should pass it. You should pass it now.

No. The First Amendment is even more inviolate then the Second.

Exact same argument pornographers use. Like any right, there are limits to the first amendment too. The first amendment protects you from governmental oppression for political speech. It does not grant you the right to offend every Tom, Dick and Harry in the public square.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Mmmm...its just good common sense regulation...right? After all, its just a reasonable compromise. I think you should pass it. You should pass it now.

No. The First Amendment is even more inviolate then the Second.

Exact same argument pornographers use. Like any right, there are limits to the first amendment too. The first amendment protects you from governmental oppression for political speech. It does not grant you the right to offend every Tom, Dick and Harry in the public square.

Its not in the public square. If you don't like it don't watch it, but quit trying to make other people do what they have a right to do. It reeks of gun grabbing nanny statism.

[Purplehood]

I don't think that Video games, violent movies or a lack of Fathers are the primary reasons for societal decay. They are all contributing factors.

My generation (born in the late 50's and 60's) grew-up in an era where society was rapidly changing. We watched the beginning of the Civil Rights era and started thinking that the world needed to be changed from what our parents before it had created.

Unfortunately we collectively went overboard (keep in mind that I am generalizing here). We invented the PTA and let the schools take over the raising of our children. We invented the EPA (can you believe that Nixon did that?) and let big-government take over our lives in order to protect the us and the world. We took the Civil Rights Act way too far and suddenly made it wrong to speak up for your selves and made it right for every culture and religion and special-interest group to determine how we should behave. We allowed ourselves to be feel bad about trying to protect our borders when in reality we are the single most lax and liberal nation in the world when it comes to border control...even the left-wing, socialist governments of Europe have tighter immigration restrictions than we do.

In short, this is our own-doing. It isn't games, movies or family units.

[asbandr]

Well, one thing we can do is pass laws that forbid violent movies or shows during hours when children are likely to be home. We actually used to have standards for TV that didn't permit such crap. There's nothing wrong with having such laws except that people don't want the laws. We could pass laws that don't allow violent videos to be sold to children.

I cringe every time I see someone suggest more laws to guarantee our children's safety. Just like 30.06 only keeps out law abiding carriers, not criminals, laws regarding violent and sexual exposure to kids through media will only affect the people who care enough to follow them, and likely, they aren't the problem anyhow. I should never have been allowed to watch rated r movies when I was a preteen, but I did. Why? Because my parents didn't care.
It all goes back to the parental unit. As parents it's our job to control what our kids are exposed to, and if they say or do something we don't approve of, it's our job to correct it.
One thing I think could be approved upon, is the rating system as a whole. I've walked out of pg-13 movies because it disgusted me the kind of things that people think are appropriate for even a 13 year old.
And since I originally posted in this thread I've been reading and considering the topic of exposure to certain types of movies and shows and while I still don't blame them for a persons decision to commit a crime, I do agree that they desensitize us to things.
There are a lot of shows or movies, even music I enjoyed as a teen but now as an adult I refuse to watch them or listen to them because I don't like the message they send.
And while I'm not saying I expect my children to become hardened criminals, we noticed that when we let our 5 and 7 year old watch a lot of power rangers, they play fight a lot more, which is fine until the play fighting turns to real fighting. So for now, they aren't allowed to watch power rangers.
My point is that it's the parents that need to be guarding their children and making the decisions based on their situation on what they'll allow. There's no one size fits all law that will turn this country around, it's what the parents do.

[ShootDontTalk]

Strange, I seem to remember a plethora of movies and TV shows where violence and revenge was a major theme.

Just about every cowboy movie ever made but a few examples:
*True Grit
*Hondo
*The Man Who Shot Liberty Valence

A raft of WWII movies

TV shows:
The Rifleman
Combat
Gunsmoke
Gillgan's Island

At the risk of sounding tacky please let me remind you that there is a huge difference between the words "theme" and "graphic". No one is talking about themes. We're talking about "graphic" depictions of violence. "I Love Lucy" had romantic bedroom scenes with the same "theme" as pornography. (Bear with me a second this is a family Board) But if you look closely there is a vast difference in the "graphic" presentation. The former merely hints at the theme, the latter leaves nothing to the imagination. The former simply hints at what is happening, the latter shows things most of us would rather not see.

Ask a soldier, cop, firefighter, healthcare worker or anyone who has come into close proximity to violent death how they feel after having seen it up close and personal for the first time. Consider PTSD. I don't like the "disorder" part at all. The majority of soldiers in combat state that when they saw their buddy blown apart in front of their eyes (graphic) it changed them forever. I'm not suggesting you get PTSD from watching graphic violence in a movie. I am stating that the experience causes changes that are easily seen yet not clearly understood. Very few people remain unaffected. Some never recover. Many become hardened and calloused to the reality. They had a "thematic" knowledge of it even at an early age, but until the brain registers images, the experience will remain somewhat vague and there is no "graphic" understanding. It affects different people in different ways.

Movies and TV with ever more "graphic" depictions of violent death have taken all of us from "thematic" knowledge to a "graphic" understanding. That "graphic" understanding (the visual images), not the imagination as stirred by hints of violence undepicted (mere theme), causes the damage. The tragic part is that we do not even know we are being injured. The fact that so many don't seem to understand the difference, in my opinion, proves the point. Please don't be offended. I have tried to enlighten you to the danger. It's up to you what you do with it. The facts are largely undisputed.

Last word from me. Yes, I agree 100% that it must begin with parents protecting and monitoring what children watch. But as your physician probably says, "Do not neglect yourselves." It may not injure you like it does your children, but it does injure everyone to one extent or another.