Legislative Protection for Shooting Snakes In Public

[carlson1]

I pray and pray it never happens, but when and if I have a meeting with a snake in public he will be dispatched no matter what the cost. I have an immediate fear of any kind of snake.

[jbarn]

A park? Warming itself under my car? Blocking my path with no other course of retreat? I don't have a specific place envisioned.

Would you agree that shooting at a snake in a public park, on a hard surface, poses a significant risk for others?

I agree that a venomous snake would probably avoid you; I don't see a need to shoot one just out for a casual slither (though it is toast if it tries to take up residence in the yard where my little kids play), and that would probably be illegal even if snakes were on the list. As to whether they are deadly, the law requires you to have a "reasonable fear of bodily injury" before you can shoot. I think being bitten by a snake, deadly or not, qualifies as bodily injury. Also, it would be a lot easier to get the proper anti-venom for you or the bitten person, if you could kill the snake for identification.

To what law are you referring that requires a "reasonable fear of bodily injury" before you can shoot?

The self defense laws we think about that allow us to use deadly force to protect ourselves from people does not apply to animals. They allow deadly force to be used against ANOTHER to prevent the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, not "bodily injury" . However, with a snake that point is moot. The only justification I see for using deadly force against non-humans is PC 9.22 that I posted above.

The issue with 9.22, at least for me, is it only covers "immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm". A snake sunning on the concrete is not imminent harm.

I just cannot imagine shooting at a snake in a public place, especially if the public is nearby. Hope this helps some....

[jbarn]

I pray and pray if never happens, but when and if I have a meeting with a snake in public he will be dispatched no matter what the cost. I have an immediate fear of any kind of snake.

I do too. lol A few years ago I was walking with my family from a parking lot to the Texas State Aquarium in Corpus. I stepped off the curb onto the street to cross and right over a HUGE snake. Some dude there picked it up and carried it off. I have no idea what type of snake it was, but to heck with shooting it. I wanted grenades and fire.

[AlaskanInTexas]

I pray and pray if never happens, but when and if I have a meeting with a snake in public he will be dispatched no matter what the cost. I have an immediate fear of any kind of snake.

I do too. lol A few years ago I was walking with my family from a parking lot to the Texas State Aquarium in Corpus. I stepped off the curb onto the street to cross and right over a HUGE snake. Some dude there picked it up and carried it off. I have no idea what type of snake it was, but to heck with shooting it. I wanted grenades and fire.

I agree (though I would only use grenades to distract it until I could bring in heavy ordnance). I was running over to the neighbors last year and jumped over the curb only to see a snake below me while in mid flight. It is amazing how a phobia can allow you to defy laws of physics, such as gravity - I am pretty sure by flapping my arms I was able to fly about 15 feet before touching down.

[AlaskanInTexas]

Would you agree that shooting at a snake in a public park, on a hard surface, poses a significant risk for others?

Yes.

To what law are you referring that requires a "reasonable fear of bodily injury" before you can shoot?

Penal Code 42.01(e): "It is a defense to prosecution ... that the person who discharged the firearm had a reasonable fear of bodily injury to the person or to another by a dangerous wild animal as defined by Section 822.101, Health and Safety Code."

The self defense laws we think about that allow us to use deadly force to protect ourselves from people does not apply to animals. They allow deadly force to be used against ANOTHER to prevent the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force, not "bodily injury" . However, with a snake that point is moot. The only justification I see for using deadly force against non-humans is PC 9.22 that I posted above.

See above - I am not referencing the laws regarding self defense from two-legged creatures.

The issue with 9.22, at least for me, is it only covers "immediately necessary to avoid imminent harm". A snake sunning on the concrete is not imminent harm.

Again, the law requires a reasonable fear of bodily injury. I don't think anyone (well except for a few phobics) is saying that we want free reign to shoot any snake in sight - just in those situations, whatever they may be, where the snake could reasonably cause bodily injury. Those situations could very well be rare, but certainly not as rare as coming face-to-face with a lion or gorilla. I think the law should allow for these situations.

I just cannot imagine shooting at a snake in a public place, especially if the public is nearby. Hope this helps some....

I can imagine it. Suppose you left your 2 year old in the kiddie swings and went to chase one of your other kids. You come back and a rattler is coiled near the swing, agitated, and within striking distance, but far enough away to dispatch. Not saying I would shoot in this situation (might make it worse), but it might become necessary. Or say you are playing soccer at some open land in your neighborhood and one of your kids gets bit and a snake of unknown species is slithering away. If it could be shot safely to give the emergency room a clue of what it was, I think that might be wise (granted you would have to be pretty close to have a prayer of hitting it). I just see the chance of encountering a dangerous situation with a snake being more likely than encountering a similar situation with the listed animals.

[jbarn]

I'll just leave it at this; I see the difference between the animals listed in PC 42 and a snake. I can see why the law would not include a snake.

What would you shoot said snake with? How close would you have to get to shoot said snake?

I don't like snakes.

I think you like them less than I.

[AlaskanInTexas]

What would you shoot said snake with? How close would you have to get to shoot said snake?

This should answer both of your questions:

[jbarn]

What would you shoot said snake with? How close would you have to get to shoot said snake?

This should answer both of your questions:

Yes sir...

[SewTexas]

I want a TANK!

but I don't necc want to kill every snake....just many of them. OK....all of the brown ones, and the tan ones, oh and the coral striped ones....yeh, that ought to do it.

[Dori]

Is it OK to joke the bill would never get out of the calendars committee because of professional courtesy?

[VoiceofReason]

Since the law you reference list public place, I am wondering what type of public place you imagine you would need to shoot a snake?

I don't know - probably the same public places where I would have to shoot a lion or tiger?

For example? This concerns you enough that you desire legislation, so do you have a general idea where this could be an issue?


If a lion escapes from a zoo, that would be an immediate danger to life, wouldn't you agree? It is also a large target, and the risk of missed shots is mitigated by those two facts, at least a little.

A snake slithering along down the sidewalk wants to avoid you. Unless you step right on it or otherwise jack with it, it is highly unlikely to strike you. Even then, with antivenom it is highly unlikely to be deadly. The risk of a missed shot injuring someone in a public place is a huge issue.

Remember, we are talking about a public place, not your yard, garden or otherwise.[/quote]

If I can catch it without placing myself in too much risk, I will just relocate it to a more rural area. My reason is if there are children in the neighborhood, I don’t want there to be a chance meeting.

The risk of a missed shot injuring someone in a public place is a huge issue.

They make “rat shot” for .38 and .22 which I imagine you could blaze away with in comparative safety. I doubt one would need to be concerned about a ricochet as a phone book of Lost Springs Wyoming would probably stop the pellets.

[anygunanywhere]

I really don't know what the issue is with snakes. Not saying you guys are.......well, you know.

The real issue is spiders. Spiders are the spawn of the devil. They have no purpose in nature.

Scorpions too.

Leave the snakes alone and focus your fear and small arms fire in the direction of spiders and scorpions.

Anygunanywhere

[WildBill]

Is it OK to joke the bill would never get out of the calendars committee because of professional courtesy?

You are full of puns today!

[jbarn]

They make “rat shot” for .38 and .22 which I imagine you could blaze away with in comparative safety. I doubt one would need to be concerned about a ricochet as a phone book of Lost Springs Wyoming would probably stop the pellets.

Yes, but who carries rat shot around for reloading in their gun for when they see a snake in a public place?

[Greybeard]

Question: "Yes, but who carries rat shot around for reloading in their gun for when they see a snake in a public place?"

I do. Not necessarily for use in a public place, but quite commonly the 6'th hole in Bianchi Speed Strip in my left pocket includes a CCI .38 shot load. Have keyed one up on several occasions in j-frames to dispatch copperheads, rats and rattlers. And wounded quailie birds that want to play hide and seek in the bush.