TRAVIS COUNTY vs. SAXET GUN SHOW

[Cedar Park Dad]

Have it in Cedar Park instead. We have something long extinct in Austin - conservatives.

Cedar Park gun shows get posted 30.06, at least recently... I find it highly annoying, especially since the local PD stands at the door to "enforce the rules".

Again I am learning more-that there are already shows, and that they are posted.
I haven't been to one in years though. Too many crowds and too few deals for my personal taste.

[cb1000rider]

Again I am learning more-that there are already shows, and that they are posted.
I haven't been to one in years though. Too many crowds and too few deals for my personal taste.

Yea, it may be the new norm. CPPD knew that they "shouldn't" arrest for "violations" when I asked. I got the feeling that it was going to depend on the officer though.
I agree with you - I didn't see *any* deals. I had limited scope, but everything I saw there could be bought online for less, including FFL and shipping fees... But that was just based on sticker. Interesting place, gun shows..

[eureka40]

The last time I went to Saxet at the Travis county event center it was 5 dollars to park and 8 dollars just to walk in the door. That's thirteen bucks out of my pocket before I get to the first table!! Then I can figure in 7 dollars for gas to get there and I'm up to 20 bucks.

After you get inside you are sure to get muzzle swept at least 10 times by some fools that have no idea what they're looking at or why. Yeah I quit going a while back, it's just not worth it anymore.

[Cedar Park Dad]

Again I am learning more-that there are already shows, and that they are posted.
I haven't been to one in years though. Too many crowds and too few deals for my personal taste.

Yea, it may be the new norm. CPPD knew that they "shouldn't" arrest for "violations" when I asked. I got the feeling that it was going to depend on the officer though.
I agree with you - I didn't see *any* deals. I had limited scope, but everything I saw there could be bought online for less, including FFL and shipping fees... But that was just based on sticker. Interesting place, gun shows..

Did they give a reason for why it was 30-06?

EDIT: Now that I think about it, if this was in the convention center it may be the center itself. I think it was posted when we went to the boy's graduation, but its been a bit.

[bbobb]

If they post 30.06 then they made their bed and can go lie in it.

[Superman]

I can understand why gun shows post 30.06 (not saying I like it though). If I own a candy store, I would probably have a policy in place that no outside candy is allowed in the store. The reason is because it would make it VERY difficult for me as the business owner to identify whether someone was stealing or not. How do I know you didn't just bring in that bag of skittles and not just take it off my shelf and open it up? It's not that I would be anti-candy, but I would have a much harder time running and protecting my business. Same reasoning for the 30.06 at gun shows. Business owners want help preventing theft. That's why no personal ammo is allowed inside as well.

And for those who will say "But we are CHL and our statistics show that the probability of us committing a crime is X% below the rest of the genreral population, etc., etc...and here is my card listing all those stats to educate you." ...My response is that not everyone attending a gun show has their CHL and business owners cannot easily distinguish who has their CHL and who does not (hence why they tether all the guns up). Should we all be forced to wear our CHL badges at the show, then maybe that problem will be fixed

My ideal solution would be to have something like a "coat checkin" (gun checkin rather) that I could check my magazine (or entire gun) into so that I can disarm at the gate and arm up when I leave. What's the cost of that kind of system?...I don't know, probably prohibitive. I just don't like being disarmed for the walk between my car and the show, but I understand their reasoning and respect their business decision.

As for the OP, I totally agree with you. I think what they are doing is completely wrong and hopefully against the law. They are trying to backdoor the "gunshow loophole" fix and we all should be against this.

[cb1000rider]

I can understand why gun shows post 30.06 (not saying I like it though). If I own a candy store, I would probably have a policy in place that no outside candy is allowed in the store. The reason is because it would make it VERY difficult for me as the business owner to identify whether someone was stealing or not. How do I know you didn't just bring in that bag of skittles and not just take it off my shelf and open it up? It's not that I would be anti-candy, but I would have a much harder time running and protecting my business. Same reasoning for the 30.06 at gun shows. Business owners want help preventing theft. That's why no personal ammo is allowed inside as well.

The "owner" of the event is selling space. Where is the hardware risk? I don't think the vendors get asked if they want 30.06 or not... Knowing the cast of characters and their clients, I can't imagine that they would be for it. But maybe I'm wrong...

CPPD told me that they've had "incidents" before at gun shows where concealed carry was "allowed" - I assume that's just general mishandling. The show was crowded, so there are very limited places you can point any sort of weapon without "sweeping" someone.

[DEB]

I don't go to Gun Shows as often as I used to. But, all that I have been to have been posted 30.06, Fort Worth, Temple, Killeen, Austin. Are there any that have not been posted? Folks have discussed that the postings are not legal, due to the venues being State/County property. But this backdoor method of forcing Calif/NY/NJ/etc style of control is irksome. Austin with a San Francisco, CA top Law Man is turning out to be a miniature California City. I will write as requested.

[VoiceofReason]

Too bad someone doesn’t have rural property just outside of Austin that would allow the gun shows to use it. Being outside the city the the local PD could not stand at the door to "enforce the rules" and the S.O. could be denied entrance without a warrant.

Travis County would be out the revenue and wouldn’t it be great to get the gun grabbers all wound up?

[EEllis]

Hey a big reason Gun Shows are posted are idiot gun owners more than anything else. For some reason people feel since they are at the gun show they can pull out their handguns (their CC guns) to show people, ignoring the fact that they legally have to keep them concealed. If people had just carried separately guns they wanted to show the biggest part of the problem with the promoters would never of happened. I don't like it but the way the aw is they normally can't make you check your gun and if you do bring it in at least the idiots won't be pulling them out to show anymore.

[C-dub]

Holding the venue responsible for background checks on private sales or even trying to prevent them presents the same problems that other universal background checks do. How can it be enforced without universal registration? If they don't check every weapon upon entry and record the owner, weapon, and serial number and then check all that again when they exit there will be no way of knowing if something changed hands.

[LSUTiger]

The issue of CCing at athe gun show and 30.06 has seemed to come up quite a bit lately.

I have previously posted this:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=70723&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

IANAL but AFAIK a magazine and/or ammo, whether together or separately, technically do not constitute a firearm and a loaded magazine can be carried concealed without a permit so 30.06 would not apply to either. (Unless they are classified as such for 30.06 purposes, but I don't recall ever reading or hearing anything to that effect. To many ATF definitions and TX CHL rules!)

I disarm when necessary but sometimes have forgotten and keep my spare mag on me.

So I ask for opinions, can you legally carry a loaded magazine on your person CHL or not, 30.06 or not?

Is there any type of "constructive possession/intent" issues that come into play?

And if I were to have loaded spare mags on my person concealed while properly checking in an openly displayed (brought in a case prior to entry) unloaded weapon with unloaded spare magazine at the gun show would I be in violation of 30.06 or any other laws?

EDIT:
A police officer once tried to convince me that the magazine is a firearm because it is part of the firearm. I tried to explain, no its not, I can buy it with out an FFL (just as I can ammo and other gun parts), the part with the serial number is the firearm. We were discussing what constitutes display of a firearm (accidental, if your shirt comes up type stuff, *no longer much of an issue now but it was then) for TX CHL. Now if the magazine is in the gun at the time then and it can be seen then yes, it is not concealed. But a magazine and ammo alone, visible *or concealed is not a crime.

*EDIT 2-This post
I think open carry of a pistol at a gun show is similiar to open carry at a gun range. You need to have it unconcealed to try to sell it or trade it or fit accessories properly. So Im sure some type of rules regarding private property, since the show is renting space, and giving permission to open carry?, come into effect. Additionally, how you could unload and load your loaded spare mags before entry and after exiting the show to remain armed (if legal to do so) and the pontential downsides to doing that is another subject.

[bayouhazard]

The reason is because it would make it VERY difficult for me as the business owner to identify whether someone was stealing or not. How do I know you didn't just bring in that bag of skittles and not just take it off my shelf and open it up? It's not that I would be anti-candy, but I would have a much harder time running and protecting my business. Same reasoning for the 30.06 at gun shows.

That makes a lot of sense. Except that most firearms have serial numbers but Skittles and iced tea don't. So the dealers bound book would prove what is his inventory, versus what's another dealers inventory or personal property of an attendee.

[cb1000rider]

I think open carry of a pistol at a gun show is similiar to open carry at a gun range. You need to have it unconcealed to try to sell it or trade it or fit accessories properly. So Im sure some type of rules regarding private property, since the show is renting space, and giving permission to open carry?, come into effect. Additionally, how you could unload and load your loaded spare mags before entry and after exiting the show to remain armed (if legal to do so) and the pontential downsides to doing that is another subject.

Open carry of a handgun in public is generally illegal in Texas due to PC 46.02 and the exceptions are outlined in PC 46.15:

Section 46.02 does not apply to a person who:
is engaging in lawful hunting, fishing, or other sporting activity on the immediate premises where the activity is conducted, or is en route between the premises and the actor's residence, motor vehicle, or watercraft, if the weapon is a type commonly used in the activity;

That is, at least last year (I may not to be up to speed on recent changes) - if you bring your handgun to my rural property and display it walking from your car into my home, you're violating the law. Even if you have my permission. Now if I had a small range on the property and we were on our way to do that, then you're not in violation.

Wikipedia indicates there is an exclusion for gun shows also, but I don't see it in the PC (Penal Code). Maybe someone else can help with this and more recent changes to the law that might allow display on private property.

[gthaustex]

Just out today. Travis County will not renew the lease for Saxet. They could not come to an agreement...

http://www.statesman.com/news/news/loca ... o-m/ncfQL/