Doctors asking if you own a gun

[sjfcontrol]

1)If there is a potential for abuse, it will be abused.
2)Today's conspiracy theory is tomorrows headlines.
3)There are 2 kinds of data. Data that has been compromised and data that will be compromised.

Larry:

1) I completely agree with you on number one. It's why I think the LA trooper that opened the CHL'ers glovebox (thread reference to be added) is a really bad idea.
2) Some of them will be headlines. There are more conspiracy theories than available headlines.
3) I agree. Data can be compromised and most of it will. Compromising encrypted data doesn't give you much unless you're really really motivated and have a lot of power or time. That's part of why HIPAA is important.

I'll buy in to the conspiracy theory here when there is a reason or motivation for the government to want to steal that data. Right now, I don't see one.

Have you seen the so-called "privacy" notice on the Obamacare site?

Within the “Terms and Conditions” source code of the ObamaCare web site, at least when it’s working, is this disclaimer: “You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. At any time, and for any lawful Government purpose, the government may monitor, intercept, and search and seize any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. Any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system may be disclosed or used for any lawful Government purpose.”

[The Annoyed Man]

From our beloved Obama Care Tax Bill, Pages 766 & 767 of H.R.3590
The first thing that caught my attention was the words "Lawfully" and the second item was why the Second Amendment reference in the "health care bill" at all? We all know how the Federal Government feels about the 2nd Amendment. Can they ask about "unlawfully" owned firearms or query to see if unlawful? I have no opinion either direction as I do not trust the Federal Government and I will not be participating at all..

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/BILLS-111h ... 590enr.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

‘‘(c) PROTECTION OF SECOND AMENDMENT GUN RIGHTS.—
‘‘(1) WELLNESS AND PREVENTION PROGRAMS.—A wellness and health promotion activity implemented under subsection (a)(1)(D) may not require the disclosure or collection of any information relating to—
‘‘(A) the presence or storage of a lawfully-possessed firearm or ammunition in the residence or on the property of an individual; or
‘‘(B) the lawful use, possession, or storage of a firearm or ammunition by an individual.
‘‘(2) LIMITATION ON DATA COLLECTION.—None of the authorities provided to the Secretary under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act or an amendment made by that Act shall be construed to authorize or may be used for the collection of any information relating to—
‘‘(A) the lawful ownership or possession of a firearm or ammunition;
‘‘(B) the lawful use of a firearm or ammunition; or
‘‘(C) the lawful storage of a firearm or ammunition.

This prompts some questions, as anybody who knows my posting history knows that I think of the falsely named ACA:

1. What kind of fruit and nut bar would report unlawfully owned, used, or stored firearms to their doctor?
2. Given #1, what possible bearing do these questions have on the medical records of law-abiding people, if they are not for data-mining purposes for future gun-control roundups?

If it is the job of the state to control your healthcare; and if, in the view of the state, guns are anathema to good health; the state then has a vested interest in lowering their risk exposure to your life choices by removing guns from your possession. . . . .without which it becomes more difficult for you to shoot yourself or someone else. . . .accidentally or otherwise.

That is one reason why Obamacare threatens the 2nd Amendment. . . . .not because the ACA is itself anti gun, but because it is so poorly crafted that it is destined to fail, and that will lead to a single payer system. But you can bet your sweep bippie that the data mined with the implementation of Single Payer will be used to enact the "common sense" gun control legislation "necessary" to make government healthcare work. Anyone think it's an accident that the Brits have no more gun rights? With single payer, the state is your momma and your poppa, and you only have the barest illusion of personal liberty.

[Jaguar]

Well, according to the AmmoLand web site, http://www.ammoland.com/2013/04/new-yor ... z2hvadBkyb" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; , it is happening in New York.

News came from multiple NY State based firearms enthusiast websites late Friday that confiscations of Pistol Owner ID Cards, as well as firearms and accessories has commenced in NY under the provisions of the horribly flawed, draconian and blatantly unconstitutional NY SAFE Act.

Not saying it is or isn't true, but I just had a friend forward this to me and this thread immediately came to mind. According to the article people prescribed SSRI drugs for depression or anxiety are having their FID cards revoked and must turn in their firearms and accessories.

[texanjoker]

I know from working child abuse that they ask questions about guns. If they think you are at "risk" they may call in a child protective service referral.

Remember: it is NOT illegal to have a gun in your home. Obvious exceptions could apply.

[cb1000rider]

Have you seen the so-called "privacy" notice on the Obamacare site?

Within the “Terms and Conditions” source code of the ObamaCare web site, at least when it’s working, is this disclaimer: “You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. At any time, and for any lawful Government purpose, the government may monitor, intercept, and search and seize any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. Any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system may be disclosed or used for any lawful Government purpose.”

No, I hadn't. It's a government system and the fact that they might use data on their own site doesn't surprise me.
I think my debate is this: The government has the capacity to steal health records that are on the internet. What purpose does it serve to do so? I understand why the government would want my contact list and phone records.

[VMI77]

Have you seen the so-called "privacy" notice on the Obamacare site?

Within the “Terms and Conditions” source code of the ObamaCare web site, at least when it’s working, is this disclaimer: “You have no reasonable expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. At any time, and for any lawful Government purpose, the government may monitor, intercept, and search and seize any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system. Any communication or data transiting or stored on this information system may be disclosed or used for any lawful Government purpose.”

No, I hadn't. It's a government system and the fact that they might use data on their own site doesn't surprise me.
I think my debate is this: The government has the capacity to steal health records that are on the internet. What purpose does it serve to do so? I understand why the government would want my contact list and phone records.

They don't have to "steal" them when they already own them. Use your imagination.....like they're already doing in NY, exploiting medical and mental treatments for taking away gun rights?....investigating parents of political opponents for child abuse, or just parents in general, when their children are treated for, well, all kinds of things?....embarrassing political political opponents who have had venereal disease or abortions or past histories of drug use?....targeting those with records of past drug use for investigation or to coerce into being snitches?....and eventually, to ensure you're "eating right" and not smoking or using alcohol. The thing is it doesn't really matter what they don't do now, since as you have already conceded, such information will eventually be abused --and once they have it, they have it, you can't get it back. If you want to see some of the other potential for abusing this data, check out the film "The Lives of Others," about how the Stasi used this kind of information in the old East Germany.

Edited to add:

BTW, there have been articles claiming that the Uaffordable Care Act includes involuntary home inspections for people like smokers and veterans. One state legislature even voted on a law to make such inspections illegal (didn't pass). I don't know if it is true or not, but we'll see.

[LSUTiger]

When Obamacare first was passed, I went to see a doctor and she asked me if I owned firearms, I told her no, and asked why she was asking. She said it was part of the new Obamacare requirements. When I pointed out that it had not even gone into effect at that time, she made some ridiculous comment to the effect that she was trying to get a headstart and then changed the subject.

To any doubters, having been asked this question directly by at least one doctor I think the OP's post has merit. I have not been asked by any other doctor since so I don't know if there is confusion on that doctor's part about what can be asked or that some doctors just don't bother with it. I would think that after a few times they get told to take a hike and lose a few patients they just might not be so gung ho to comply with the ridiculous and uneccessary questions.

[rotor]

If there is any question about guns and obamacare here is an executive order issued by Obama on Jan 25, 2013.

http://www.newsmax.com/Headline/Obama-g ... /id/471689" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Item # 2 says
"2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background-check system."

You can interpret that to mean anything you want. Does it mean that they can data-mine a doctors records? I don't know. I would assume they could by Executive order. What would they look for? Did you ever take an anti-depressant? Very easy to data mine for key things. What would they do with the info, I don't know. Interestingly some years ago the FAA data-mined pilots medical exams ( big fine for lying) with medical records and disablity claims ( I don't remember all the details). A bunch of pilots were caught on this trap and I imagine had big penaltys.

[EKO]

I go to the Kelsey seybold clinics (I know 30.06, but my trusted doctor I have had for years works there). They are fully computerized. and the last time I was in I saw on one of the pages a field for firearms with a comment section and checkbox. The Doc never asked and it was left blank.

[Fangs]

I was recently at a hospital for ankle surgery. They asked about my alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine use, but no firearms related questions.

[mojo84]

Yes. That may be one reason they are staging military armored vehicles around the country with local law enforcement agencies.

Laugh on big boy. It's scary times when our 2nd, 1st Amendment and 4th amendment rights are under attack and people in our government start using rhetoric and terms such as this. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10 ... c-enemies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[E.Marquez]

Yes. That may be one reason they are staging military armored vehicles around the country with local law enforcement agencies.

Laugh on big boy. It's scary times when our 2nd, 1st Amendment and 4th amendment rights are under attack and people in our government start using rhetoric and terms such as this. http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/10 ... c-enemies/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And some of your like minded folk commenting on that article

"Snowleopard {gallery of cat folks}Oct. 19, 2013 at 12:07pm
And it will be only a matter of months before Obama turns the armed forces against the conservatives as ‘domestic terrorists’ to exterminate us once and for all. His madness grows by the day, as does the desperation of the left."
THIS SPOT RESERVED.

I'll come back to this post ever few months and update on the extermination of "domestic Terrorists"

Welllll, unless Im exterminated

[mojo84]

I'm more concerned about what a government official said from the floor and what the government is actually doing than what some anonymous kook posts in the comments.

[E.Marquez]

I'm more concerned about what a government official said from the floor and what the government is actually doing than what some anonymous kook posts in the comments.

Agree (though I think he fits the same "kook" category)

[1wise1]

For what it may be worth, here's the latest from World News Daily: Published Sunday October 17, 6:30 a.m. Attribution pursuant to "Fair Use" section 107 title 17 U.S. Code ... character of use for nonprofit educational purposes.....

{"HAS YOUR DOCTOR TAKEN OBAMA BRIBE TO SPY ON YOU?
Get ready to talk about your meds, guns and lifestyle.
Sure, doctors will say Obamacare requires them to ask you these probing personal questions and to put your answers in the government's database.
But wait until you see the chunk of change Obama paid them to do it ...
Read the latest now on WND.com"}

Certainly inflammatory and sure to engage a large number of readers. Checked Snopes (even though everyone knows by now they are heavy contributors to the Democratic party) No mention of this particular angle of the continuing story.