Make gun related purchses by credit card? Then BO knows it

[Dadtodabone]

Good.

As in "Good, maybe people will start using cash again?"

Except it has become "functionally illegal" to carry more than, or have in your possession in a safe, more than a couple hundred bucks. Can't keep $10,000 in a safe anymore cuz they'll call it "drug money" and confiscate it.

While I understand the point that you are making, how would "They" gain access to my safe or safety deposit box without a warrant?
I wouldn't travel with large sums of cash, most auction houses and large collectors prefer wire transfers. But I do keep a significant "Gun Money" fund in cash. Cash is for those times when a cashiers check, or like instrument, isn't readily accomplished or the seller prefers cash in hand.
I've filed plenty of form 8300's in my business career, I know my banks report large withdrawals and deposits that I've made. This has had no effect on how I conduct myself, my purchasing for my collection, or sales that I've made when making a change in the collection.

Nice that you trust warrants are still necessary, but I wouldn't put anything valuable in a safety deposit box at a bank today --money most especially. You think the IRS would have any problem getting access to your box? All they have to do is decide to look at you for whatever reason. My father got a $200,000 tax bill from the IRS, and they knew he wasn't the guy they were looking for....different middle names and different social security numbers. They admitted this on the phone, but it didn't stop them from putting a lien on his bank account. He couldn't even get a cell phone until the lien was removed. Last year I read about the Feds prosecuting a couple for withdrawing their own money out of the bank....because they took out $10,000 over some period of time in increments of less than the reporting requirement. The only thing preventing anyone of us from going to prison under this government isn't innocence of a crime, but having not yet been targeted for whatever reason.

We just did the audit tango last year. No problems except the lost time and inconvenience. My CPA/Attorney speculated that the trigger was the change in our charitable giving program. We had been Education/Arts heavy, after deciding our alma mater's endowments had an obscene amount of dough, and being discourage by the direction that some Boards of Directors had moved in regards the arts, we switched to a more faith based giving program. Not the amount of charitable giving, just the recipients.
The agent/examiner was at a loss as to what we were doing there, and was professional and courteous. The entire process including assembling items and the examination interview probably took about 10 hours on my part, maybe 8 for my CPA(I was billed for 12).
I can't speak to your or your father's experience, just my own. I regularly make large withdrawals and deposits at my banks with no negative repercussions. I believe the overall pattern of my banking and travel to the EU makes it very unlikely that the Gov't isn't aware of me or what I do with the money. That's not going to change how I live or how I enjoy my "Golden Years".
While I've recently examined my belief system in regard the most recent past and current administrations, I still view our form of constitutional government as the last best hope for freedom in our world.

In Pace Decus, In Bello Praesidium

[VMI77]

Good.

As in "Good, maybe people will start using cash again?"

Except it has become "functionally illegal" to carry more than, or have in your possession in a safe, more than a couple hundred bucks. Can't keep $10,000 in a safe anymore cuz they'll call it "drug money" and confiscate it.

While I understand the point that you are making, how would "They" gain access to my safe or safety deposit box without a warrant?
I wouldn't travel with large sums of cash, most auction houses and large collectors prefer wire transfers. But I do keep a significant "Gun Money" fund in cash. Cash is for those times when a cashiers check, or like instrument, isn't readily accomplished or the seller prefers cash in hand.
I've filed plenty of form 8300's in my business career, I know my banks report large withdrawals and deposits that I've made. This has had no effect on how I conduct myself, my purchasing for my collection, or sales that I've made when making a change in the collection.

Nice that you trust warrants are still necessary, but I wouldn't put anything valuable in a safety deposit box at a bank today --money most especially. You think the IRS would have any problem getting access to your box? All they have to do is decide to look at you for whatever reason. My father got a $200,000 tax bill from the IRS, and they knew he wasn't the guy they were looking for....different middle names and different social security numbers. They admitted this on the phone, but it didn't stop them from putting a lien on his bank account. He couldn't even get a cell phone until the lien was removed. Last year I read about the Feds prosecuting a couple for withdrawing their own money out of the bank....because they took out $10,000 over some period of time in increments of less than the reporting requirement. The only thing preventing anyone of us from going to prison under this government isn't innocence of a crime, but having not yet been targeted for whatever reason.

We just did the audit tango last year. No problems except the lost time and inconvenience. My CPA/Attorney speculated that the trigger was the change in our charitable giving program. We had been Education/Arts heavy, after deciding our alma mater's endowments had an obscene amount of dough, and being discourage by the direction that some Boards of Directors had moved in regards the arts, we switched to a more faith based giving program. Not the amount of charitable giving, just the recipients.
The agent/examiner was at a loss as to what we were doing there, and was professional and courteous. The entire process including assembling items and the examination interview probably took about 10 hours on my part, maybe 8 for my CPA(I was billed for 12).
I can't speak to your or your father's experience, just my own. I regularly make large withdrawals and deposits at my banks with no negative repercussions. I believe the overall pattern of my banking and travel to the EU makes it very unlikely that the Gov't isn't aware of me or what I do with the money. That's not going to change how I live or how I enjoy my "Golden Years".
While I've recently examined my belief system in regard the most recent past and current administrations, I still view our form of constitutional government as the last best hope for freedom in our world.

In Pace Decus, In Bello Praesidium

I think maybe we're speaking at cross purposes. Yes, it's entirely possible to get a good and fair examiner.....it's also possible not to. We've seen the kinds of things the IRS has recently been up to. The problems begin when you're targeted, and when that happens, innocence is irrelevant. I personally haven't had any problems and I too have made large deposits and withdrawals. It's not the large deposits and withdrawals that people are being prosecuted for, it's the small ones. I'm not sure what the current trigger is. It used to be $5K but I think it has been lowered. Whatever it is, lets say $5K. You can now be charged with a felony in this country if you make five withdrawals of your own $20K, instead of four or less. That's not "freedom." Now, I don't think they're going after everyone that does it....they use that law to punish people who do things like challenge them in court....but that doesn't make it anymore reasonable or acceptable. In fact, the very definition of tyranny is the arbitrary and capricious application of the law. This kind of behavior is not pervasive...yet...but much much worse has happened and is happening with complete impunity. You should read about what was done to the BP agent who reported the fact that in spite of a specific terror alert, more than 20 foreign nations on the terror watch list were allowed across the border with Mexico without any scrutiny, in gross violation of procedure.

[Jim Lockey]

You guys worry about E V E R Y T H I N G . We have a credit card through State Farm and charge every purchase all month long. By doing so we get several hundred dollars off our State Farm bill every year. We pay the credit card off E A C H month and pay no interest. I don't like to carry large sums of $$$$. Keep worrying and you will never make the 80's like me.

Jimmy

[VMI77]

You guys worry about E V E R Y T H I N G . We have a credit card through State Farm and charge every purchase all month long. By doing so we get several hundred dollars off our State Farm bill every year. We pay the credit card off E A C H month and pay no interest. I don't like to carry large sums of $$$$. Keep worrying and you will never make the 80's like me.

Jimmy

If you're 60 or younger today the chances of making into the 80s are greatly diminished. Besides, longevity is mostly genetic. My parents ate and drank whatever they wanted. My father died at 86, my mother is still alive at 92. I also prefer to use the credit card and I do it a lot. Just because right now it's not a particular problem doesn't mean it will always be that way. You should be old enough to remember what they said about income taxes....oh no, it's only 1%, and only on rich people making over $100K (in 1918 dollars).....and social security numbers too....oh no, SS numbers will never be used for identification, even said so on my card. In the long run there is simply no way that the government is going to collect all this data and not use it to control you. It has never happened in the history of the world that a government didn't eventually use all the power it has against its own people, and it's not going to be any different here. Things may not come to a head 10 years from now, but I'm pretty sure we're not going to make it another 20.

[Jim Lockey]

My doctor, who is an interest said : "You should make it well into your 90's." As for longevity, my dad died at 71, mother died at 76, older brother killed in car accident at 81 and sister at 76. You can have a lot of good longevity but there are things that can take you out early.

[cb1000rider]

You can have a lot of good longevity but there are things that can take you out early.

Like flying airplanes, owning guns at home, and scuba diving? That's what my insurance agent tells me.

Life expectancy is interesting because the median life expectancy is really impacted by infant mortality.. As that's been decreasing drastically in the USA for the last 150 years, it looks like we're (on average) living a lot longer than prior generations... We're actually living a little bit longer, but not a lot.

It'll be interesting to see over the next 50 years. We're generally a fat and ill-conditioned bunch when compared to the rest of the world... It's probably mitigated by our healthcare technology.

[tomneal]

How to get on "The List"

Just off the top of my head:

- Purchase anything with a credit card from any store that sells guns, ammunition, or hunting related items
- Get a hunting license
- Take Hunters Ed.
- Join the NRA or TSRA or a gun club ("THEY" are photographing every piece of mail)
- 4473's. Every time a FFL closes their bound book goes to the BATFE. (I assume it will be entered into a database for ease of access.)
- Signup for any gun related Forums
- Send any gun related email
- Have any gun related documents on your PC. Even easier if you use Cloud Computing.
- Get a CHL
- Report a stolen gun
- Live in home where someone on "The List" lives or has ever lived.


It's too late for me to avoid being on "The List"

Plan B.
Make the list so big that "THEY" will think there are too many of us.

[92f-fan]

Some of you guys worry about everything. You will never make it to my age if you keep this up. LOL

Jimmy

[cb1000rider]

tomneal,
Thanks for the realism and pragmatic response!

[sunny beach]

You guys worry about E V E R Y T H I N G . We have a credit card through State Farm and charge every purchase all month long. By doing so we get several hundred dollars off our State Farm bill every year. We pay the credit card off E A C H month and pay no interest. I don't like to carry large sums of $$$$. Keep worrying and you will never make the 80's like me.

Jimmy

I lived through the 80's and the economy was a lot better back then. Elections have consequences.